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02 December 2004 @ 02:49 am
Tell Me How to Celebrate, Part 1: the Slashiest Fandom  
I'm about to ask an important question, maybe the critical question of fandom.

What is the slashiest fandom of them all?

Think you know? Tell me in the comments, and please provide examples.

Or read on, and I will tell you what provoked the question. Basically, it was the juxtaposition of two things: vids and a video game. Let's consider them in order, shall we?

See, I've been on a sort of vid-watching kick lately (in the same sense that the Trainspotting boys were on a sort of heroin kick). And one of my secret shames is an adoration of the "four minutes of the slashiest moments in this particular fandom" subgenre, aka the Slash Highlights vid; I love these, especially when I don't know the canon, which is most of the time. Jack pushes Daniel's glasses up his nose. Blair and Jim make breakfast together. Starsky and Hutch strip. Wesley feeds Angel from his arm. And my once-cold heart just melts. When I first started watching vids, these Slash Highlights ones astonished me. I kept thinking, did the creators know what they were doing? Did the actors come from some distant country that has no concept of personal space? And are those two guys just going to fuck right there on screen or what?

It was at this point that I encountered a bunch of Highlander Slash Highlights vids, and in particular this one scene where a short-haired guy (Methos?) walks into a room and sees or is introduced to a long-haired guy (Duncan?). And Methos checks him out. I mean, obviously, visibly, and with no other possible explanation for his actions, at least not that I can see. And then he smiles, and it is, in my considered opinion, an "Oh, yeah, I'm going to love fucking this guy" smile. It's the sort of scene that makes you turn to your Best Beloved, assuming your Best Beloved is watching the vid with you, and say, "Did I - did he - oh my god, did he?" To which your Best Beloved responds, through almost uncontrollable giggles, "Totally. Oh, God, totally. Gay! Gay! Gay!"

So I started wondering how many other fandoms have these moments, and which fandom has the most.

And then the Best Beloved and I got hold of Shadow Hearts: Covenant, a Playstation 2 game that easily takes the title Slashiest Video Game of All Time away from the previous title holder, which was the original Shadow Hearts game. In SH: C, you collect - seriously - gay porn to get a flaming tailor to make dresses for a doll. And you can see the gay porn, mind you, in the inventory screen. You have a party member who is a vampire professional wrestler who wears a butterfly mask and who is apparently conducting an intense UST-laden relationship with his teacher. You have character interactions that can only be described as "like the DCU, if all the writers got hit by pink kryptonite." Really, there's not a single hour of the game that isn't imbued with slashy slashiness. And that includes the slashiest cut scene I have ever beheld in all my born days, a scene so slashy that the BB and I have held on to the save right before it so we can watch it over and over, laughing like loons every time.

Yuri, the star of both Shadow Hearts games, is in a bar in Southampton. In walks a Mystery Man with muscles and a swirling cape and a dangerously tailored uniform. Yuri is transfixed. He doesn't just cruise Mystery Man, he doesn't just check out every inch of MM's body - he quite literally cannot tear his eyes away. Then MM turns around and proves to be a man Yuri knows of old: Kato. Kato makes it clear that the fascination is mutual. They have a conversation that is full of references to the lovely time Yuri and Kato spent in Shanghai, including the pleasures they experienced then and the loneliness they've experienced since. They make an appointment to meet later. "I'm staying in this hotel," Kato says. "Come by any time. I hope to see you soon." Later, Yuri meets Kato in his hotel room (and there's only one double bed in there, and every other bed in the hotel is occupied, and yet Yuri stays somewhere that night); they have another intense conversation, and the screen goes dark. The next morning, Yuri rubs his ass and says, "I think I need a doctor." I can't really tell you more without explaining the whole story of the game, but trust me: there is so much slash in this cut scene that boys have been known to turn bisexual just from watching it.

In short, Shadow Hearts: Covenant is the motherlode of slash. Surely, I thought when I first encountered it, surely there is no fandom as slashy as this game?

So I ask you: is there? If so, what is that fandom? And what makes it so insanely slashy? Tell me. Convince me. Make me clap my hands because I believe in fairies.

I'm hoping that this will help me do my 111th post. Because that post should be a celebration of this LJ's core values. (Slash. And fandom. Also, slash.)

-The Evidence: Vid Recs, Because, After All, This Is a Recs LJ-

Want to see some slashy moments in the flesh? I can't promise that these are the slashiest vids in their fandoms, but they do contain most of the scenes I mention above. And some others that are equally ohmygodtheirloveissoobvious.

Stargate, Jack/Daniel: "Let's Hear It," by Relic 1979, has Jack pushing up Daniel's glasses and a bunch more; you can download it from Relic's website.

Highlander, Methos/Duncan (I think): "Just Like You," by Luminosity, features the "I'm going to love fucking this guy" bit. You can find it at Luminosity's website.

Angel, Angel/Wes: "If It's Hurting You" contains the Wes-feeding-Angel scene, and "Completely Pleased" contains a whole bunch of other Angel/Wes-ishness. They're both by Charmax, and they can be found at Bronze Ambition.

Starsky and Hutch, Starsky/Hutch: "Mighty Fine," by Kassidy Rae, shows the guys stripping, together, happily, and at some length, for reasons best known to themselves. It can be downloaded from her website.

Multifandom: "Dirty World," by Diana Williams, has great slashy moments from a bunch of fandoms. You can download it at her website; that site only features her newest vids for downloading, though, so eventually you will have to order a hard copy to get this one.

Multifandom: "Wouldn't It Be Nice," by Laura Shapiro, features another cross-fandom parade of slash. To get the vid, you'll need to email Laura for the password to her website, so the link is for that.
I have tactile telecuntnesis.: Wertham was RIGHT.zeelee_penguin on December 2nd, 2004 03:28 am (UTC)
I'm going to have to nominate DCU as the slashiest fandom, here. The crackiest, too, but also the slashiest. Because it's a comics fandom, we don't have any of the kind of slashy moments *you're* talking about, but that just means that the slashy subtext must be included in the dialogue or drawn by the artist, making it seem all the more deliberate.

Examples, text only because I'm too lazy to go find scans: Tim's last thought when he thinks he's going to die: "I just wish I could talk to Kon one more time." Kon, visiting Tim in Gotham: "You sure know how to purty when you want a guy to hang out..." (Later, he makes a comment about how Tim's voice drops an octave when he gets all commandery, as he's staring at Tim and ignoring the supposed damsel in distress. It's beautiful.) And I won't even touch on all of the pre-crisis slash crack, man.

And, really, just find any picture of Nightwing's first costume, and ask yourself: Can any fandom truly be gayer than this?
tried to eat the safe banana: Gagthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 12:28 pm (UTC)
Your icon is hysterical. It's got to win some kind of "Context? We don't need no stinking context" award.

Tim's last thought when he thinks he's going to die: "I just wish I could talk to Kon one more time."

Oh, Timmy, sweet sweet Timmy - you mean you didn't want to talk to Dick one last time? Or is it just that even your writers didn't they could get away with having you nearly die with Dick on your lips, so to speak?

Um. Yeah. Given all those scenes in which Robin and Superboy completely ignore available women to stare at each other, maybe so.

And you didn't even mention the Rainbow Raider. DCU is definitely the fandom that takes the combination of crack and slash to a high art.
(no subject) - zeelee_penguin on December 2nd, 2004 12:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 07:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zeelee_penguin on December 2nd, 2004 07:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zeelee_penguin on December 2nd, 2004 11:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
I Wanna Dress You Up In My Snarkadjectivegirl on December 2nd, 2004 03:29 am (UTC)
Hmm, I may be in need of clarity (also, I've been crazy insomniac all night) but do you mean in quantity of slash or quality? Like Harry Potter is a slash wonderverse, with dancing boys in school uniforms and dark corridors and oh! the dungeons. The dungeons!

But on the other hand I don't think there's an overarching Power Couple that gets written and re-written like say, Clark and Lex on Smallville. I would say Harry/Draco gets closebut it tends to annoy a lot of people, including me, and maybe that counts towards disqualification.

For my money, the slashiest fandom is LOTRips or my personal favorite Peter Pan RPS, but I bet you're asking about fictional characters right?
tried to eat the safe banana: Greek to methefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 01:47 pm (UTC)
Ooops. Should've mentioned that I was only talking about fictional fandoms. Not, mind you, because I don't see the slash in the LotR guys' behavior - I mean, kissing in public is, yes, just the teeniest bit slashy - but because I can't read RPS.

It's interesting that you mention HP, though, because that's one of the canons I knew backward and forward before I ever found fandom, and I never saw any slash there. Hmmm. It's definitely got slash trappings, but I just never - saw any actual slash there. (Excepting Remus and Remus/Sirius, which - yeah, they're practically wearing a sign, those two.) Must review, obviously.
(no subject) - adjectivegirl on December 2nd, 2004 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - adjectivegirl on December 3rd, 2004 10:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
PROBE UNIVERSE: smallville: clark (i'm no angel)liviapenn on December 2nd, 2004 03:33 am (UTC)

I have to rec another vid here, 'cause it's a perfect example of what you're talking about: Andariell's "In Your Eyes," a Smallville songvid. It's just Clark and Lex *looking at each other*. And flirting. And *gazing*. And pining. And having cheersex. And LOOKING. And-- yes.


Andariell picks the clips and hits the beats *so well*-- *mmsigh* I could watch it over and over again.
tried to eat the safe banana: Kiss methefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 01:56 pm (UTC)
That vid is absolute proof that fanofall was right when she said that Lex has chemistry with every object and human in his view, with the exception of his female love interests. Because after seeing that vid, I think a talented writer could probably believably slash Lex with a towel.

Lex appears to be thinking "Oh, yes, delicious" all the time. Whereas Clark appears to be thinking it only when he looks at Lex. No wonder the girls get forgotten in this show.
aliquid stat pro aliquomaygra on December 2nd, 2004 04:02 am (UTC)
If I were closer
I would descend upon you with my box o' vids. Most of them are on VHS, but to this day I swear, Pro's ranks up there on the slashiest ever. S&H as well. (I mean did you see the remake with two actor/commedians I really don't like but who managed to ...I swear, they really didn't have to do much to make it slashy. They really didn't. It was funny becasue it was so much like the original.)

But yes, Highlander, particualrly after MEthos entered the pictures...it was entirely the fandom that tripped me up totally and I didn't even know about fanfiction or fandom at the time...
tried to eat the safe banana: Suspicious owlthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 03:09 pm (UTC)
Re: If I were closer
Damn. I wish we did live closer, because that box o' vids sounds fascinating - I know a lot of the best Pros and S&H stuff isn't available online.

I've never seen either version of S&H, but I suspect I'll be watching the movie of S&H very soon. And the few TV S&H vids I've seen have made it *abundantly* clear that those guys spent way more time hugging and crying and stripping and dancing and hanging out together (drunk and sober) than any two entirely straight guys could.

Pros is tougher, though; the vids I've seen for that don't really show much in the way of slash. Looks to me like the show was a lot grittier, for one thing, and most vids seem to concentrate on that. Not that grit cannot produce slashy moments, because it so totally can. Just - not in the Pros vids I've seen.

Highlander, on the other hand, seems so slashy in vids that the only question is whether Methos's love is requited or not; I've seen vids making cases for both. (Methos is the short-haired one, right?) And what is the *deal* with all those scenes where one of the guys has a sword to the other guy's neck? I mean, I've seen the Highlander movie, so I know what the head-lopping is about, but - these guys are friends, yes?

Still and all. Slashy as hell, and you are not the first person I've met who found the slash through Highlander. Perhaps "slash conversion ratio" should be a factor in determining the slashiest fandom.
Re: If I were closer - rosekay on December 2nd, 2004 06:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If I were closer - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If I were closer - rosekay on December 5th, 2004 07:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Part II - rosekay on December 5th, 2004 07:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Zebrazebra363 on December 2nd, 2004 04:49 am (UTC)
It's hard to go past Jim bringing Blair back from the dead by merging their spirit animals in The Sentinel. Find me something slashier than that, and I'll buy it tomorrow!
PROBE UNIVERSE: dc: bette goes omgsqueeliviapenn on December 2nd, 2004 11:17 am (UTC)

Yeah. I mean, for a show as ridiculously slashy as TS was to begin with, they didn't really HAVE to have Jim follow Blair into DEATH so their two souls could merge into one and Jim could drag Blair back to the land of the living. *sniffles*

The fountain scene always makes me a little wibbly.
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fanofall on December 21st, 2004 11:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mandy: Intimate Inmategeneticallydead on December 2nd, 2004 05:01 am (UTC)
I'm going to nominate Oz, because I mean, really... it's Oz.

it's CANON that if you're not gay, there's still a good chance of gay sex*.

asides from the more obvious realtionships (Beecher/Keller), praggers (Shillinger), and rapists (Adebisi), there's a constant background vibe of, well, slash. sex is a driving motivation in Oz, and it just happens to be in a place full of men. sex plays as large a part in the show as violence and drugs; it is as integral to the plot as the devious nature of the criminals themselves.

the sex* is canon, and unlike a show such as Queer as Folk, the male/male aspect isn't always a given. some, like Beecher, walk into Oz completely heterosexual and have a rude awakening. others, like Keller, accept it as a part of prison life. Schillinger uses sex as a weapon, Adebisi gets drunk on it like a greek god, and other characters, like Jason Cramer and Nat Ginzberg, knew their sexual identity before they ever passed through the gate.

I guess I'd call Oz the slashiest fandom because it's not subversive - male/male sex* isn't the produce of fan speculation, it's canon. it's not easy, it's not always in acceptable forms, and sex as love is usually the exeption that proves the rule. but it's there. in Oz, sex and attraction are living, breathing entities inside the show, driving forces for some characters (and sources of endless squee for fans).

and just one more time... c'mon. it's Oz.

*not always consensual sex.
jellybeans and bloodspatter: O'Reily's best don't fuck with me look.swear_jar on December 2nd, 2004 05:49 am (UTC)
The little *not always consensual sex. cracked me up. Because, um, I have a sick sense of humor. Anyway!

Just saying ditto, though does Oz count? Can it be called 'slashy' if it's canon gay sex?
I get stuck there too... - maygra on December 2nd, 2004 06:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - geneticallydead on December 2nd, 2004 06:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on December 2nd, 2004 06:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - geneticallydead on December 3rd, 2004 02:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on December 3rd, 2004 02:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ineke on December 2nd, 2004 08:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 03:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Luminosity: Whateversockkpuppett on December 2nd, 2004 05:25 am (UTC)
As much as I adore Highlander, and believe me, I *do*, the slashiest fandom of all? Angel, no contest, hands down winner. There's a reason we call it our "dead gay show." Please see Whatever :)
smonsterbite: lornesmonsterbite on December 2nd, 2004 08:02 am (UTC)
Yes, yes, and yes. And now I really want to watch "Whatever," but i'm at work... stoopid work.

I've shown that vid to people who love Angel, people who hate it, and those who have no clue whatsoever about the show. They all laugh their asses off at the undeniable HoYay.
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 04:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sockkpuppett on December 2nd, 2004 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 04:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sockkpuppett on December 2nd, 2004 04:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
The Black Kitten: Nobility - Sacrifice - Chocolate: yurilaylah on December 2nd, 2004 05:39 am (UTC)
YES OMG YES SH:C is the video game that makes you gay!

...Right now, I'm working on some Yuri/Joachim. And it's totally tragic because it's set right before you get to Southampton and the cutscene you described above -- omg where Yuri just stands there and forgets to let go of his hand -- which will, of course, crush Joachim's poor ponderous heart as he's completely ignored in favor of the mysterious ex stranger.
(Have you played the first game?)

If you find other fic for this game I would love to see it, because the subtext is just so rich and tasty. Meantime I need to get farther in the game so I can get Kurando, because I've seen pictures and yum.
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(no subject) - laylah on December 2nd, 2004 09:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 04:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laylah on December 2nd, 2004 04:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - laylah on December 2nd, 2004 04:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
jellybeans and bloodspatter: he has a DART stuck in his HEAD!swear_jar on December 2nd, 2004 06:14 am (UTC)
I could be really obvious and say Oz ‘cause um. Yeah.

I’d say The O.C.. Seth and Ryan… otp. So it’s mostly from Seth’s side, though Ryan is the king of Intense Looks Of Longing.

Seth gets together with his long time crush, Summer, they’re all happy and love-y, but then Ryan leaves with his ex-girlfriend who’s pregnant and Seth runs away.

He angsts to Summer and then runs away… ‘cause life isn’t worth living without Ryan there for him.

Then there’s this (transcribed strait from an ep.):

Seth: Hey, oh ... sorry. I'm surprised that hasn't happened before. Not saying I'm disappointed it hasn't happened before just saying the mathematical probability of ...
Ryan: Yeah, crying during chick flicks, walking in on me getting dressed ...
Seth: Yeah, what's your point? K, I'm not seeing what you're getting at? Do you work out?
Ryan: Not really.
Seth: Cool, me neither. I'm gonna go watch some hockey.
Ryan: Hockey season's over.
Seth: Damnit. Where you going?
Ryan: Gonna go find Luke. Beat the crap out of him.
Seth: Oh, where shall this can of whoop-ass be opened?

I'm not all knowing about The O.C., or even as obsessed with it as I am with most of my fandoms, but boy. Is it slashy.

(It was a toss up between Oz, this and The Boondock Saints... the only reason I didn't do BDS is 'cause plenty of people have done excellent break downs of the EXTREME slashyness... such as this one. Omg. With pics. Though the slashiest pairing in BDS is incest... if you see the movie, you will be converted, It's just too obvious).
tried to eat the safe banana: Lostthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 04:37 pm (UTC)
Oh, god. That does sound slashy. And I live in LA, where we have:

a) the world's biggest, ugliest, most TV-like billboards ever, solely for that show, including a giant one that I have to pass millions of times daily because it's on the freeway where I spend 3/4 of my life, and it features, like, clips of the characters at 1000x size, and - yeek, just YEEK

b) radio station DJs and traffic reporters who now call Orange County "The O.C.," which, trust me, they never did before That Show came out, and it's IRRITATING

So I have some bias against the show, as I'm sure is coming through to you, and I've avoided the slash for it even though some of my favorite writers are in the fandom. But that? That is so slashy. TOC sounds like a serious candidate for the title.

Boondock Saints sounds even slashier, though. I've always avoided that one because of my serious incest squick, but that recap was so persuasive (and scary) that I'm going to have to be squicked out by the actual movie now.


Ah, well, fandom's all about breaking artifical boundaries, right?
(no subject) - wistfuljane on December 2nd, 2004 07:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wistfuljane on December 2nd, 2004 07:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wistfuljane on December 3rd, 2004 12:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on December 2nd, 2004 09:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 11:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on December 3rd, 2004 12:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sparkythehamstr on January 22nd, 2005 03:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
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HJhjcallipygian on December 2nd, 2004 07:14 am (UTC)
I'm playing that game right now! It's great. It's also amazing that they can have so much gay!boy slashy subtext in a game where all the women dress like cyberpunk hookers from Mars.

However, the most slashy thing ever is, without a doubt, those two guys from the IBM smartserver commercials. You know, the guys who are sitting in Paris at a cafe together in several commericals and have another one in an art museum. Watch the one where the one guy says love is in the air and the other refutes him, saying it's commerce, and the look they give one another at the end: the only person I have ever said, "You're such a romantic," to in that tone is a girlfriend.

They're so a couple.
The Black Kitten: Nobility - Sacrifice - Chocolate: yurilaylah on December 2nd, 2004 09:31 am (UTC)
Re: SH:C
a game where all the women dress like cyberpunk hookers from Mars

*dies laughing* Yes! Yes, a thousand times yes!
And then Karin had the nerve to get offended when Yuri and Gepetto stared at her in that outfit!
Re: SH:C - hjcallipygian on December 2nd, 2004 10:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: SH:C - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 04:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: SH:C - hjcallipygian on December 2nd, 2004 08:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: SH:C - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 10:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Bastet: messalina (slut!)sweetvalleyslut on December 2nd, 2004 07:17 am (UTC)
Smallville, Smallville, Smallville. Now, it's not my favorite fandom, or even my favorite pairing, but DAMN. There's the fact that their first meeting is marked by mouth-to-mouth, which apparently is some kind of religious experience for Lex. There's "Hourglass," where a clock *literally* ticks away the seconds as they stare into each other's eyes. There's "Red," which involves Clark going evil, buying some new threads, and the camera right on Lex as he takes in the outfit with a total "man, my boyfriend looks HOT!" expression on his face. Right before he agrees to run away with Clark to Metropolis, because, and I quote, "Clark Kent and Lex Luthor. I like the sound of that." The slashiness has been toned down a bit since season one, however--it's not like the Sentinel, where it starts out gay and just gets gayer and gayer.

(Other really slashy fandoms I have never seen you rec: Once a Thief, Firefly, Farscape, and Brimstone, most of which don't have huge followings, but are all Very, Very Gay.)

Milkshake Butterfly: brimstone dead gay showmilkshake_b on December 2nd, 2004 09:39 am (UTC)
Oh, I love you just for mentioning my poor, dead, gay show.
(no subject) - sweetvalleyslut on December 2nd, 2004 09:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 2nd, 2004 10:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sweetvalleyslut on December 2nd, 2004 06:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 12:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 12:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 3rd, 2004 04:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 12:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 3rd, 2004 04:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
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tried to eat the safe banana: UF black and whitethefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 06:07 pm (UTC)
...with a constant recasting of visual or plot tropes that normally indicate romantic involvement between a man and a woman to include Clark and Lex.

Visual I've got, but plot? I'm very curious, now.

Throw in the prowling omnisexuality of Lionel Luthor and the way it turns the Lionel-Lex relationship into a festival of creepy incestuous subtext, and there's nothing left to say.

What is it with the Luthors? I mean, are they superheroes from the planet Sexual Chemistry (the civilization of which, of course, died off because everyone was too busy fucking to eat, or even breathe), imbued with special secret powers unknown even to them?
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(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 04:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
ineke on December 2nd, 2004 08:16 am (UTC)
Oh lord, Jack and Daniel are so married.

On the basis of that clip, that is. I mean, in canon I don't really see much subtext -- it's the idea of slash that gets me with that pairing -- but when you compile four minutes of clips out of 8 seasons worth of material, isn't it really possible to make anything seem like canon? ;)
tried to eat the safe banana: Everybody wants a rockthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 06:11 pm (UTC)
...but when you compile four minutes of clips out of 8 seasons worth of material, isn't it really possible to make anything seem like canon?

Totally. As is abundantly proven in Carol S.'s Schoolhouse Rock vid trio.

But, yeah, I've heard that the actual canon is not so much with the slashy moments. Of course, this is no problem for me - I mean, like I ever know the canon anyway - so I continue to enjoy the pairing. (Remember when I said your FF was likely to start me on the Stargate path? Well, it did.)
(no subject) - ineke on December 2nd, 2004 06:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 12:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 3rd, 2004 05:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
Imaginary Researcher: Prophecy OTP - laylah_rhannahrorlove on December 2nd, 2004 08:20 am (UTC)
The Prophecy. It's surprisingly slashy, and from what I can tell from the performances, the actors picked up on that and ran with it. Almost all of the pairings have strong support in the canon.

The plot is something like this: Some angels are jealous of humans because humans have souls, and they've started another angelic war. The war's been in a stalemate for millenia, and the bad angels (lead by Gabriel, played by Christopher Walken) need to get the most evil soul on earth to help them win. A good angel, Simon (played by Eric Stoltz), comes to earth to get the soul before the other angels do. Then people start getting involved, and then Lucifer (played by Viggo Mortensen) shows up.

It's not very well-known, which is a pity, given that it's highly entertaining.


Screencaps of Viggo as Lucifer. Especially this one.
The IMDB page has some wonderful quotes, such as these:

Gabriel: This war is mine!
Lucifer: Your war is arrogance. That makes it evil. And that's mine.
Gabriel: Lucifer. Sitting in your basement. Sulking about your breakup with the boss. You're nothing.
Lucifer: Time to come home, Gabriel.

Lucifer: [shrill whisper] I love you! I love you more than Jesus!

Simon: Oh, Gabriel. When was it that you lost your grace?

A lot of caps.
Cool anecdotes, such as this one by Mortensen:
There were some silly things which I felt were interesting that were cut out of [The Prophecy] for reasons of whatever, shots didn't look right, or they wanted to speed the movie up. I think [the studio people] were afraid we were too kinda wacky. 'It's the devil, man. You can't do stuff like that.' I go, 'What are you talking about? I can do anything I fuckin' want.' You know, just odd things that at the time people were laughing at. I mean, Chris Walken was pretty fuckin' out there and very funny. [He's] another guy who it doesn't matter what movie he is in, he is always doing something really interesting. You put him in any situation and something interesting will happen, just by him being there...For me, it was certainly memorable to have a scene with Chris.

The community witheronthevine is pretty much dead, but there's some good stuff on there.
places have some nice sound files.

I have more links but don't have the time to post them right now. I can get them to you later, if you'd like.
tried to eat the safe banana: Big eyesthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 06:15 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm going to have to watch The Prophecy now. I mean, there's really no way around it; your links have left me with no choice, because - really, that just might be the slashiest fandom.

And also, that Mortensen quote? Hee. I love the idea that there are some things that are just too out there for Lucifer, the man who typifies the concept of "no limits." Hollywood producers are truly not of this Earth.

You realize that if I make it through the movie I'll be asking you for FF recs, right?
(no subject) - hannahrorlove on December 2nd, 2004 06:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 3rd, 2004 03:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 3rd, 2004 03:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hannahrorlove on December 3rd, 2004 01:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sylviarheasilvia on December 2nd, 2004 09:14 am (UTC)
Now I'm immensely curious... any chance of screenshots of some of the rampant slashiness of "Shadow Hearts: Covenant"?
tried to eat the safe banana: Sharethefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 06:18 pm (UTC)
Um. laylah? hjcallipygian? Either of you feel like jumping in here with a hearty "yes" and a link? Because I am not so good with the screencapping, me.

But, if they don't, then - possibly. I will get back to you on that.
Jonathan Toews does not want a sandwich.: Boffing Luthor--lanningsvmadelyn on December 2nd, 2004 09:21 am (UTC)
I think you can check out velvetglove's overview at crack_van under the subsection "Proof of Gay".


She's right in that just stills cannot fully capture the sheer gayness of those scenes, but by God, she damn well tries.

sisabet's "Without You I Am Nothing" is to this date, my favorite Smallville vid.

Even if it breaks my mind and soul.


I mean, sure, I'm biased here. But this is my first slash fandom; it's the pure love. I *never* entertained thoughts about television characters being gay until I turned on Smallville, "Hourglass", one fateful summer night rerun right before S2 and saw the infamous seven second eyefuck. I didn't know that what I had in fact witnessed was indeed an eyefuck, I just knew it looked like they were really, really about to have sex right out there. And then by the Rain of Blood and Death, I was *hooked*. And then I googled around, Smallville, Clark/Lex, gay, etc.

And you know, here I am with my little slashy heart embracing slash everywhere. *beams* So yes, biased, but rightfully so as I've perused a lot of fandoms and I just don't believe anything can beat Smallville for the hoyay factor.
tried to eat the safe banana: Smilethefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 07:11 pm (UTC)
velvetglove's summary is hysterical.

And, yes, the gay does come through better in the vids than the stills, though both are pretty damn gay. And in some cases I think it helps to know the context for either stills or vids.

Is Smallville your only fandom? Or is it more of a One True Fandom thing, where, sure, you might dally with others, but your heart belongs to Clark and Lex and their love, which is probably easily detectable to Martians? ("Hey, check it out. Earth's transmitting that one insanely gay TV show again.")
(no subject) - svmadelyn on December 2nd, 2004 08:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 04:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Killa: loony fanskillabeez on December 2nd, 2004 09:42 am (UTC)
I considered and rejected S&H, ST:TOS, HL, Wild Wild West (though they win for kinkiest), Sentinel, and a handful of others. All very slashy, yes. But only in Wiseguy do we get three minutes of the two guys staring into each other's eyes, in terrible emotional pain, while the Moody Blues wail "I love you... oh how I love you" over and over. I really still can't top that with any canonical scene. Hutch climbing into Starsky's hospital bed is close, but I still gotta give to Sonny and Vinnie.

I would give more examples, cause that's not the only extremely slashy WG pairing, but I am not supposed to be reading LJ. *g*
tried to eat the safe banana: Sharethefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 07:15 pm (UTC)
Re: Wiseguy.
(For the record, when you say Wild Wild West, are you talking about the movie?)

And you should know you have a powerful proponent on your side. I'm totally unfamiliar with Wiseguy, but Best Beloved is a fan from way back. (Three minutes? Are you kidding? Please tell me that's hyperbole. Because, Jesus, SV gets a prize for seven seconds of eyefucking.)

Also, tell me more of this "Hutch climbing into Starsky's hospital bed" thing. You interest me strangely. (Well, OK, not so strangely.)

But feel free to wait until after the paper writing and studying bout is over, because I don't want you to die of exhaustion and eyestrain; it would be a great loss to fandom.
Re: Wiseguy. - elynross on December 2nd, 2004 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Wiseguy. - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 04:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Wiseguy. - elynross on December 3rd, 2004 09:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Wiseguy. - killabeez on December 4th, 2004 04:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Wiseguy. - killabeez on December 4th, 2004 04:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
Milkshake Butterfly: brimstone dead gay showmilkshake_b on December 2nd, 2004 10:11 am (UTC)
I'm not actually here to pimp my show of choice, Brimstone, as the slashiest, largely because I have season Smallville Season 1, and damn, that's hard to compete with. I had a friend who had to stop watching because she couldn't take the unbearable slashiness of it all. I would, however, like to nominate Brimstone for an honorable mention.

You've got:

All the Zeke/Devil stuff, which is mostly expressed in the essay I just linked--and actually I left a few things out, one of which gets brought up in the comments.
Hasdrubal Skaras--it's worth noting that one of the slashiest scenes in the series doesn't actually occur with the obvious canon slash pairing, but rather with a guest villain, all in black leather, who saunters up to Zeke while he's eating dinner, clearly checks him out, makes references to 'you and me', tries to establish a partnership, talks about Zeke's looks--not that anybody blames him, Zeke being ridiculously cute--and then dips his finger in something white and creamy and sucks it off. People have been known to watch this with their mouths hanging slightly open.
(I ought to try and dig up a transcript--I just watched this again and it's even slashier than I remember.)
Canonical Femslash. Kind of. Sort of. I mean.... What is it, exactly, when one of the women in question is a shapeshifter and is currently pretending to be a man except changes back into a woman in the middle of a fairly intense scene? And that was after they'd already slept together. I still don't know how to define that incident. Damned love polygon.
Sextextual femslash--I swear Max and Teresita, aka sultry waitress of doom, did some eye flirting. If we'd had more episodes and more interaction they'd have made a fun couple.

I don't know. It's hard to describe the slashiness of Brimstone. It's also hard to express in little visual clips. A lot of it can be blamed on John Glover, I think. Slashy, slashy man.
Milkshake Butterfly: brimstone gropemilkshake_b on December 2nd, 2004 10:32 am (UTC)
A transcript, as promised. Or at least as mentioned. You know what's amazing about Brimstone? I'll remember things as being fairly slashy, and go back and rewatch and realize, no, actually that was really slashy.

Like I said, not the slashiest fandom ever--but probably worth an honorable mention.
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 08:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 3rd, 2004 05:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 3rd, 2004 01:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 4th, 2004 04:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 4th, 2004 10:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on December 5th, 2004 05:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
Laura Shapiro: viddinglaurashapiro on December 2nd, 2004 10:34 am (UTC)
Thanks for the rec! (:
tried to eat the safe banana: Kiss methefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 08:47 pm (UTC)
But of course. When I think "showcase of slash," "Laura Shapiro" is the first phrase that comes to mind.

Um. Well, you know what I mean.

(Thanks for the vid!)
(no subject) - laurashapiro on December 2nd, 2004 10:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Dammit, Clark's penis is going in *something*.: Batman/Robin: Not over it. Nope.thete1 on December 2nd, 2004 01:04 pm (UTC)
Man, as gay as SV was... I still have to go with DC. It's not about the single pairings (which, I think, SV wins on with Clark/Lex and Lionel/Lex), it's about the way that it's really hard to find characters (dead, alive, evil, good, human, whatever), who Bruce isn't totally in love with. (This post, THIS POST OMG) It's about the way that the more appearances a character has in various books, the more people he (or she) will be incredibly gay with. (I didn't write Tim/Connor Hawke because I thought they'd be hot together, I wrote it because the one Robin/Green Arrow crossover made it VITAL to do so.)

It's the artwork of WTF?. It's the fact that sparring cannot STOP being homoerotic, and that they ALL do it ALL the time. It's the pantiescrossdressing for justice. Or the crossdressing for friendship.

Age-appropriate behavior? Please. Appropriate filial relationships? Yeah, *right*. Don't make me *laugh*. He's your 'son.' Uh, huh.

And, well. I COULD keep going.
tried to eat the safe banana: Batvinethefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 09:01 pm (UTC)
Please, Te, do keep going. It's not like you haven't already broken my brain with the incredible slashiness in some of those scans.

Jeez. You know, I don't buy comic books much anymore - basically, I won't until I figure out what's stored in the Mystery Longboxes under the spare bed, which means, you know, opening nine million individual plastic sleeves (Look. Leave me alone. I had a boyfriend who was a comics geek, OK?), and it's going to be torture - so sometimes I forget how slashy comics, and in particular the DCU, are. And then you, or someone on scans_daily, will come along to remind me.

Because - um. Tim, honey? Your lust for GA is showing. And that whole Dick/Superman thing, and I put the slash in there advisedly, and the older Dick slutting it up with Roy, and...Jesus Christ.

Drowning! I'm drowning in slash!

No, no, don't pull me out. I'm fine.
fictionbya: Oz - Good to be bad.fictionbya on December 2nd, 2004 07:51 pm (UTC)

I assume canon slash doesn't count so I shall not speak of Oz.

I must agree that Highlander is undeniably very slashy. The double quickening of "Revelation 6:8"? Like the gayest gay orgasmic moment ever.

But I feel I must pimp the slashiness of my very first fandom ever: Forever Knight. I was seeing the slash between Nick Knight and Lucien LaCroix before I ever knew what slash was or knew of fandom or the internet. Yes, even in my innocent prefandom days, I knew there was a lot more going on in their relationship than just power struggle.

Ah... there are some FK vids, but they are freaking huge (46 mb wtf? file compression, yo?). They are yon at Knight Vision: http://www.honeybat.com/kristin2/Forever_Knight/index.htm

You basically can look at anything there, pictures, episodes clips, whatever that have both Nick and LaCroix in them. It probably doesn't even matter if anyone else is in the scene because they are invariably focused on one another.

The basics on their relationship:

LaCroix is a vampire and he brought Nicholas Chevalier across in 1228. Nick angsted a lot and such over the years and really grew to hate being a vampire and to resent LaCroix. LaCroix and Nick cohabitated off and on (usually also with Janette, whom LaCroix also brought across and there whole thing is my biggest OT3 evah, but I digress). Anyway, LaCroix us uber posessive and chases Nick wherever he goes, constantly trying to get Nick to give in to his nature and return to LaCroix.

There are also sorts of subtexty looks between then and touching and dialog.

I think vampire fandoms are all just super gay anyway.

tried to eat the safe banana: Swoonthefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 10:53 pm (UTC)
Well, it'll take me a bit to download those vids, even with a highspeed connection, 'cause they're a bit huge. But rest assured I shall watch them, and then we will go into this whole Forever Knight slashiness in more detail. For the moment, I have only to say:

I think vampire fandoms are all just super gay anyway.

Yes. Yes. Yes.
(no subject) - fictionbya on December 4th, 2004 10:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fictionbya on December 4th, 2004 11:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on December 4th, 2004 06:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fictionbya on December 6th, 2004 07:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
Ardent: Fraser Brownardent_muses on December 2nd, 2004 09:52 pm (UTC)
I'd like to say Due South or Man From UNCLE because I love them, and they're all better shows (from a quality standpoint). But I can't. The slashiest show of all is The Sentinel.

*weeps for all the hours I've lost and will never get back*

tried to eat the safe banana: UF greythefourthvine on December 2nd, 2004 10:55 pm (UTC)
TS is certainly notable for having started out gay, and then just added more and more gay until it reached Critical Gay Mass, at which point it imploded and became the Big Black Hole of Gayness.

Sort of. You know what I mean, anyway. I've heard it's not so much with the quality, but the vids - um. And the bloopers - double um, as far as slash goes. Yeah, those two knew what they were doing.
 I'm not familiar with the thing I'm seeing: duckylite_bright on December 5th, 2004 08:20 am (UTC)
Highlander. Without a question, slashiest show.

When the whole damn point of being an Immortal is to kill all the other Immortals, any relationship longer than .0001 seconds has got to have serious devotion in it. (Not sure how much you know of the canon but, quickly- Duncan, the long haired and self-righteous one, Methos, the short haired and kinda slutty one, are Immortals. Basically, they live forever, unless you cut off their heads. There's a whole mythology behind this. This brings up a lot of torrid history, especially for Methos, who is thousands of years old.) Duncan and Methos hang around each other, kill other Immortals who might be a threat, and drink like fish.

They also continually refuse to kill each other, even when Methos' old boyfriend (really!) comes around, and tries to kill everyone. It comes out that Methos used to be Death, and went around killing people. A lot of people. Naturally, Duncan doesn't like this, but he doesn't decapitate Methos. It must be love!

And, of course, there's the eye-fucking, and all those things that say "oh, they are so doing it."

Also! The fandom? Is huge.
(Anonymous) on December 8th, 2004 12:54 pm (UTC)
OK, this question sent me off on a bit of a tangent. When I thought about my favourite slash fandoms, what immediately sprang to mind were Highlander (my first, slightly neglected love), Smallville and due South (my major obsession).

So, Highlander. When I actually thought about it, nearly all the episodes I have seen are pre-Methos and the ones that did have M/D interaction I saw *after* I had read slash with them. (Genre TV can be hard to find on British terrestrial, HL tended to be on at 3am and in apparently random episode order). I started watching Smallville after reading Te's fics, in fact I only watched it *because* I had read Te's fics and I wanted to see if Lex was really that hot! (Oh, yeah, he is.) Due South is the same story - I read almost exclusively F/K but prior to about a month ago, the majority of the episodes I had seen were with Vecchio and before I even knew what slash was.

So the question I found myself asking was: do I see certain canon relationships as slashy because they genuinely are or have I been conditioned to by my reading habits?

And then I went and watched some more DS and realised yes, it really *is* that slashy! "do you find me attractive", buddy breathing, weird jealousies over women, closet conversations, rubber ducks popping up, riding off into the sunset... and let's not forget the outtake I saw somewhere of CKR and PG pretending to shag against a wall. So despite some fierce competition from Lex's eyefucks, I have decided that it isn't just me and that due South is the slashiest show of them all.

OK, rambling over.

not present at this time: preeettty!timunobtrusivegirl on December 8th, 2004 04:20 pm (UTC)
Now, DC being DC (*D*elicious *C*rack *U*niverse), it obviously wins for sheer volume of ridiculously, unbelievably... what's a good word? ...loaded moments. But there is the fact that there are so many, between so many random characters, who have the tendency to do so many other strange things (clones! dimensional vortexes! the Bat-car, the Bat-cave, Krypto, the Superdog. Stephanie, the girl Robin.) It... dilutes the slash, somehow. Certain parts of the DCU many be the slashiest crack ever, but it's not consistent enough for me. I say: the place to get your slash fix is Due South.
I'm not sure where to find DS vids, but geez, the opening credits are better than some vids. Ray doing his dance moves, Fraser rolling around in the dirt, the whole tackle-each-other-to-safety theme they have going – plus the last shot is of smooth!Fraser giving you a very debonair grin. *melts* You have not *seen* Teh Preety until you have seen Teh Fraser.
Anyone have some DS vid recs? I was thinking of adding some fic recs to this post, but I just can't decide how sort through all the good stuff I've got bookmarked. So I'm just give you this, which links to a large percentage of my favorites. Thank you, Slash slut.
(by the way, this is the third season RayK/credits I'm talking about. Sorry, RayV fans, the first Ray is nice and all, but is he blond? Is he hyper? Does he *wiggle*?)
Due South is a buddy show, like most of the slashiest of the slashy. Buddy shows are *made* for slash – they're all about a relationship. Ray and Fraser are always having these wonderful relationship moments – they do dangerous, wildly bizarre things for each other all the time. They have trust issues. They *talk* about them. Not to mention the slasher's standard list of squee moments: '"Do you find me attractive?" (the answer is yes.)' "I love you, Fraser. –In a symbolic kind of way." "Are we still partners?""If you'll have me."
gingergal2 on October 22nd, 2014 07:43 pm (UTC)

Sorry, RayK and F/K fans, but any evidence you have for slash is also the evidence for F/V slash. Your claim of F/K slash is pointless for that reason. And you can find slashy moments in any relationship if you treat every gesture of close friendship as romantic attraction or flirting.

The only difference I see between Fraser and RayV's relationship and Fraser and Kowalski's relationship is that RayV and Fraser have a nicer friendship. And not everyone thinks that Kowalski is attractive and appealing because he's blond and hyper, and "wiggles."