21 January 2005 @ 12:48 am
Rant: Enough Already  
Life has been unkind to me and mine lately, which has driven me straight into the logophagic part of acquiring a very large new fandom. As always, it's making me testy. During these periods, I read an enormous number of stories, and I'm usually trying to back-engineer the canon, and, well, I'm not at my all-time most tolerant. Which, let's face it, is not really all that tolerant anyway. In short, it's time for another mean-spirited FF rant.



Lube. Lube is important. Crucial, even. I admire authors who take the time to lubricate their characters before anal sex. But there are some kinds of lube that are worse than none at all. In other words, please no more soap as lube ever ever ever. I mean, unless you want it to hurt like hell. (Shampoo is also out, folks. And do I need to explain why hair gel is a bad idea? Well, obviously I do, as I recently read a story involving just that thing, but surely most people understand that "sticky styling product" is not synonymous with "Astroglide," right?) Because, look - if you're going to make me curl up from flashes of sympathy pain, don't you want it to be deliberate? Helpful rule of thumb for lube: if you're gonna get creative, try it on yourself before you try it on your characters. (You're excused if you once had to deal with the aftermath of a friend grabbing the toothpaste instead of the spermicide, because, trust me, you see that once, you don't ever make that mistake yourself. In fact, you seriously consider labeling all your toiletries in Braille, on the off chance that a blind person ever wants to find lube in your bathroom and doesn't think to ask you.)

Cum. "Come." It's spelled "come," goddammit. And don't tell me it's confusing to have it spelled the same as an entirely different word. You speak English. You should be used to this. And if you can't tell from context whether it means "have an orgasm" or "move toward something," you don't speak the English language after all, so you're in no position to be making changes to it. Plus, if we never use "cum" to mean "semen" again, we'll never be confronted with the non-word "precum," which, in addition to being absolutely horrible, always makes me reach reflexively for my Latin-English dictionary. So know that when you spell it c-u-m you're giving some of us painful flashbacks to Latin classes so boring that, by the end of one of them, we could totally empathize with what it's like to be dead for two thousand years. (And by the end of four of them, we were envying Latin, which at least got to be used in orgies and stuff before it died. The best we got was slides, which I had never seen used as a teaching aid prior to this class.)

Per se. It is pronounced "per say." It is not written that way. Or purr say, or persey, or any of the other mutations your mind creates. Seriously. I suffered through two years of the aforementioned Latin class to learn facts like this. Make my childhood boredom worth something; use and spell your Latin phrases correctly. Or, hell, just leave them out altogether. I won't complain. (And you know, the worst part about the slides was that we almost never got to see them, because the teacher couldn't work anything that was manufactured after Diocletian died. When your career has reached the point where it takes three eleven-year-old girls to get your tie disentangled from a fucking slide projector, sir, it's time to find a new career. Or just stop showing slides. We all already know what the Coliseum looks like.)

Watch the cock. I know. You're thinking, wait, that's pretty much all slashers do, right? But I meant that you should be watching the cock's progress. If, the last time we heard tell of it, a given cock was slowly hardening, it should not be achingly hard one kiss later; it makes me highly suspicious of the cock's ability to stay the course. (Of course, if that's the point of your story, go you.) Likewise, if you're writing a detailed sex scene, try to have some actual sex in it. Too many stories these days go like this: 3 paragraphs of kissing, 4 paragraphs of increasingly intense groping and licking, 1 sentence of penetration, 1 sentence of mutual orgasm (which is generally blindingly incredible and often involves screaming), and then 4 paragraphs of afterglow. If that's happening in your story, you have a problem with pacing. Or your character has a problem with premature ejaculation, I suppose.

Akin to terror. What's related to terror? Fear, horror, dread, panic, and alarm, just to get you started. So if there's all these terms related to terror, why not use one of them? Don't just tell me that a given emotion is "akin to terror." Get specific! Either the character is terrified, in which case say so, or he's something else, in which case, hell, go crazy and tell me exactly what that is. Otherwise I'm forced to wonder about you - I mean, you know twenty-four synonyms for sexually aroused and not one for terror? Are you even from this planet?

Bruises. First: bruises are not sexy. They aren't. If you don't believe me, examine yourself the next time you have one. Second: it is easy to bruise someone's neck or breasts with your teeth. It's a lot, lot harder to bruise someone's hips with your fingers. Seriously. Dirty looks will occasionally bruise my Best Beloved, but does that mean I leave finger-shaped bruises every time we have sex? No. No, it does not, and that's because it's not easy to do. Nor is this whole bruising gig something that works for most pairings. (Yes, I'm sure Keller and Beecher bruise each other; for them, that's actually playing nice. But we love those guys 'cause they're not normal.) I think (I hope) writers sometimes use "bruise" to mean something else - pressing hard enough to turn the skin white, leaving the skin flushed and red when the pressure is lifted again. But some authors are definitely talking about real, actual bruising, and unless your characters have platelet disorders, it's just not that likely. Major exception: this is OK in Smallville, as long as it is Clark who is doing the bruising. Please, unless someone can explain to me why it makes sense ('cause, hey, no canon expert here), let's never again have stories in which Lex bruises Clark without benefit of kryptonite.

They don't like to watch. Here's a tip: straight men do not typically feel comfortable when their gay male friends have sex in their presence. They certainly don't carry on a conversation with whichever friend has his mouth free of encumbrance. But it's a sign of acceptance, you cry! The pairing guys are showing how comfortable they are with their new-found sexual identity, and the observers are showing their tolerance! Um. No. Because - let me put it this way. People, just in general, do not feel comfortable watching their friends get it on. (There's an exception here for certain straight men and their lesbian friends. A mildly irritating exception. Moving on.) It has nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with, you know, boundaries and culture. Don't like that? Get off on an uninvolved, uninterested person watching? Make up a brand new culture or alien race, sister, because it won't work in a story set in modern America (and this is just a guess, but it probably won't work in most of the rest of the first world, either). And, for the record, most people are not comfortable being watched, either. Sex is not a spectator sport, for the very good reason that it looks stupid a lot of the time; let's leave the characters their dignity, shall we? I mean, unless you're deliberately taking it away, in which case, hey - go you.

Like a virgin. Or not. If you're painting a modern-day character over the age of - oh, I'll be generous and say 25 - as a virgin, unless that person is a nun or something I'm going to need a lot of back story. A fuckload, in fact. You want to say it's the first time Daniel Jackson has had sex with a man? I'm fine with that, willing to buy that, happy to go with it. If you're telling me that an encounter in a series-time story is the first time that Daniel has ever had sex, though, um - he was married. Among other subtle clues that he might have had sex at some point in his past. So come up with a brilliant explanation or surrender the virginity, please. And, really, what's so wonderful about losing one's virginity? I've done that. It wasn't, shall we say, pleasant. Now, partly that had to do with the circumstances, but it mostly had to do with the fact that it was my first time. I've gotten better at sex since then. Way, way better, and I mean in the enjoyment as well as the technique sense. And, really, I sort of like the characters to have the same advantage. So, look. If you want to write about virgins, write HP or pre-canon stories or something. I can believe in virginity in those cases, although I adore authors who write that first time as awkward, bad, and stupid as it often is. But please don't tell me that Blair Sandburg is a virgin at 28. Or Angel, who we saw have sex in canon back on Buffy, and who is three hundred years old. Or, god help us, Christopher Fucking Keller, who has earned that honorary middle name in a variety of ways. (And yes, I've read – well, skimmed parts of - stories making just that claim for all those guys.) First time in love? Fine for some characters. First time with the same sex? Fine with most characters. First time in a long time? Perfectly acceptable in many cases. First time, period? No. Please. No.

Think I missed something? Previous FF rants are here, here, and here.

Got some FF bitching to get off your chest? Share in the comments section. I like to know I'm not alone in my insanity.

Hate me and want to make sure I know it? Remember to flame with class.
Tags: [rant]
 
 
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( 219 comments — Leave a comment )
Evamaria: sun kissedshirasade on January 21st, 2005 12:05 am (UTC)
Heh. Totally agree with you on every single one of those points! Especially the use of soap as lubricant and the mangling of the English language. Every time I read the word 'cum' in any context, it makes shiver - but not in anticipation. :)

Must admit that it made me giggle, though, that you practically called me a nun - I'm 24, still a virgin, and it doesn't look as if that's about to change any time soon. And there's not a lot of backstory to that, no great moral convictions (except that I'd like it to be with someone I care about, not one-night-stand or holiday flirt) or traumas or anything - I just haven't gotten around to it yet. So I guess I'll have to hunt through my closet for a nice penguin suit... *g*
tried to eat the safe banana: Swoonthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:26 am (UTC)
Hmmm. Well, I see that I sort of implied you're a proto-nun, but that wasn't my intention. See, I know people who were virgins at or after 25 who had no special yen for a wimple. I just can't think of many fictional characters who could possibly be. Modern ones, I mean. Because, well, let's face it: fictional people have way more interesting lives than we do, and that's because they didn't have to live them. We have pasts. They have backstories. So in high school they didn't have to suffer fits of insecurity and pop zits and write bad poetry, unless it advanced a plot; they could go right to the fascinating, romantic, traumatic, or impressive (delete as necessary) major life events. In college, they didn't have to write those papers and get that nap and bicker with roommates over who ate whose ramen. And so on.

So, yeah, people can surely be virgins at 25. But not most characters. And definitely not Blair or Daniel or Angel or Keller.
(no subject) - janissa11 on January 21st, 2005 04:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Marna Nightingale: sprained ovariescommodorified on January 21st, 2005 12:12 am (UTC)
I have a confession to make.

...I think bruises are sexy. I think scrapes are sexy, too. Like, wear-and tear injuries, not bad injuries.

I think dark bruises on pale skin are enticing as all hell.

I think men and women with bruised and scraped arms and/or legs look adventurous and slightly crazy and just generally GUH as hell.

I think bruised knees make me look faintly dirty and dangerous and always show them off when I have them.

Now, I DO know that in fact, people don't bruise easily during sex, and with that part of your rant I have no issue at all.

But *flails at icon* I just want to LICK that little scrapebruise on his jaw...
tried to eat the safe banana: UF indigo girlsthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:35 am (UTC)
I hereby amend the statement to read "Bruises are not sexy, except to commodorified, and she's got excellent taste, so perhaps we should examine this concept much more closely."

But speaking for myself, I don't so much want to lick his (and who is that, anyway?) jaw as slap some antibiotic cream on it. Go ahead, call me dull and totally unromantic. It's hardly news.

(I will admit, though, that ligature marks, including bruising, can sometimes be sexy, provided they came about in a totally consensual way.)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on January 21st, 2005 02:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on January 21st, 2005 03:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - howifall on January 21st, 2005 04:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - damned_colonial on January 21st, 2005 05:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - obsessedmuch on January 21st, 2005 06:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - darthfox on January 21st, 2005 07:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 09:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui on January 21st, 2005 12:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 12:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui on January 21st, 2005 01:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui on January 21st, 2005 03:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 02:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 03:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 03:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 03:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 05:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 21st, 2005 10:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - musesfool on January 21st, 2005 07:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - imkalena on January 21st, 2005 08:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
I'm just saying... - maygra on January 21st, 2005 10:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - imkalena on January 21st, 2005 05:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - damned_colonial on January 23rd, 2005 08:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - imkalena on January 24th, 2005 08:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - butterfly on January 21st, 2005 09:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mandy: Intimate Inmategeneticallydead on January 21st, 2005 12:20 am (UTC)
oh man. now I have to delete a whole Oz fic. it's called Christoper 'The Virgin' Keller Experiments With Lube. cause I was thinking, you know, lube in Oz: problem. so I was going to have him try out some dishwashing detergent, or maybe a nice oily salad dressing, or sneak into the factories and steal some machine grease.

I've always thought shaving cream was a good idea. perhaps shoe polish? toothpaste - you got that one, but what about some kind of paste with flour and water...?

and as for the whole 'bruise' thing, if Keller and Beecher aren't actually bruising each other, or even drawing blood, then I'm just plain disappointed.

tried to eat the safe banana: Sharethefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:41 am (UTC)
Hee. No. You need to write that one. Definitely. Yes.

(And, not to change the subject, but do you have all your fic archived anywhere? It's hard to find your stuff, and I feel all deprived.)

Flour and water - hmmm. Well, that's how you make paste, so I'm thinking it'd be pretty damn sticky. (And cornstarch and water is highly entertaining - you can make a fascinating substance that switches from solid to liquid and back again at room temperature, which entertained me for hours when I was wee - but definitely not lubricating.)

And I'm totally with you on Keller and Beecher bruising each other, you know that. Because they don't so much wear their hearts on their sleeves as just blood. Usually someone else's, and often each other's. But they are, you know, special. (And I mean "special" as in "take special care in handling; venemous and prone to biting.")
(no subject) - geneticallydead on January 21st, 2005 02:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 03:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on January 21st, 2005 12:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - soralin on January 21st, 2005 10:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
hot dog wreath: so's your face!!!!1helpwess on January 21st, 2005 12:22 am (UTC)
i was so disappointed in zach braff for subtitling, "he's gonna cum," not "come." zach! no! you made me cringe!
tried to eat the safe banana: Words.thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:31 am (UTC)
Well, I'm not familiar with the specific situation, but if it makes you feel better (because I am all for making people who have had close encounters with that unfortunate word feel better; we've suffered enough) - it's possible that Zach Braff wasn't directly responsible. Usually subtitling is done by someone at the, for example, DVD producing company or wherever. And, judging by my many experiments with subtitles (I'd rather read than hear, even with movie dialog, or at least read and hear), it's never done all that well.

Um. Or I could just say: "Bad boy, Braff," and leave it there. Yeah, that'd probably be better.
(no subject) - helpwess on January 21st, 2005 04:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
like using semaphore at the drive thru: Blue Menprettyshiny on January 21st, 2005 12:34 am (UTC)
I am SO adding this to the group memories for slashforum. Just thought I'd share.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF bluethefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:33 am (UTC)
Ooo, neat. Thank you! (And thanks for telling me.)
(no subject) - prettyshiny on January 21st, 2005 08:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
that'll give you bees: Misc - Eddie knows your Dadzoetrope on January 21st, 2005 12:34 am (UTC)
Brilliant - all so true.

And, as a little example of my own horrors, I recently read a story in which sea water was used as lube. Now I can't talk from personal experience here, but I'm thinking *ouch*.
tried to eat the safe banana: Sharethefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:39 am (UTC)
Sea water? That'd be a big yes on the ouchiness. (I'm actually annoyingly obsessive about lube, and those who know me can testify to this at disturbing length; I once had a minor hissy fit when I was betaing a story in which the characters had sex in a swimming pool without lube (it was in character), all "gotta change it 'cause that hurts hurts hurts ouch bad memories ow!" I'm, like, the Lube Facist or something. It's a personal shame, but not a major one.)
(no subject) - sockkpuppett on January 21st, 2005 06:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 06:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kassrachel on January 21st, 2005 07:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mayo?? - prettyshiny on January 21st, 2005 09:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Mayo?? - norah on January 21st, 2005 09:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Mayo?? - prettyshiny on January 21st, 2005 09:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Mayo?? - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 04:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Mayo?? - atalantapendrag on January 21st, 2005 03:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Mayo?? - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 04:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 03:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 04:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ouch to the thought of slat water. - raveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 08:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: ouch to the thought of slat water. - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
jellybeans and bloodspatter: I am le sheep. Wellswear_jar on January 21st, 2005 12:47 am (UTC)
They don't like to watch.

You know what? That is so true. Seriously. My best (male) friend and his girlfriend used to kiss in front of me every now and then in their lovey-dovey stage, and... it's seriously not very comfortable. You don't know where to look.

Of coarse, there's always the exception of voyeuristic kink stories, or the classic Oz plot device "people watching Beecher and Keller getting it on".

Or, god help us, Christopher Fucking Keller, who has earned that honorary middle name in a variety of ways.

::FACEDESK::. Hello disregard for CANON. He’s… emphatically NOT a virgin (in… any way).

People. Stupid. It's almost funny, really.
tried to eat the safe banana: Huh?thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:49 am (UTC)
My best (male) friend and his girlfriend used to kiss in front of me every now and then in their lovey-dovey stage, and... it's seriously not very comfortable. You don't know where to look.

I'm not proud of this, but I once had sex with a guy solely to avoid this situation; his friend and my friend were having sex in the backseat of my car, and we were parked in the middle of nowhere, and they were taking forever, and I barely knew the guy and we had nothing to talk about (see: not proud of this), so I was like, "Well, um...sex? Better than dying of awkwardness, I'm thinking."

In other words, I'm right there with you on the discomfort. I mean, I was guilty of excessive public displays of affection in my wayward youth, but at least I know better now.

Of coarse, there's always the exception of voyeuristic kink stories, or the classic Oz plot device "people watching Beecher and Keller getting it on".

Well, sure, yeah. That totally works. I just can't take situations in which you have Character A and Character B totally getting it on while Character B also chats casually about football with his friend Character C, who is cheerfully ignoring the heaving passionate writhing going on two feet from him. But voyeurism kink? Oh, yeah, right there with you. Anyone in Oz watching B and K? Well, the whole place is made out of glass, and it's not like they all have important meetings to get to or anything; of course they're gonna watch.

Hello disregard for CANON. He’s… emphatically NOT a virgin (in… any way).

I know. He's got, like, antivirginity or something - not only is he not not not a virgin, but wherever he goes he destroys virginity in novel, interesting, and sometimes explosive ways.
(no subject) - swear_jar on January 21st, 2005 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 06:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - swear_jar on January 21st, 2005 05:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Andrasteandrastewhite on January 21st, 2005 01:06 am (UTC)
Major exception: this is OK in Smallville

Or, you know, if you had another pairing involving an alien who can break chains with his bear hands and lift grown men over his head when he's in a bad mood. I'm pretty sure half of my B5 OTP would have to make an effot not to leave bruises on the other half during sex. And I have to confess I'm also in the 'bruises can be sexy' camp, although only for that pairing so far. Some couples are just weird, y'know?
tried to eat the safe banana: Greek to methefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 01:56 am (UTC)
Oh, surely. I don't know from B5, but if you've got a super-strong character, bruises are all fine and dandy. In fact, going back to SV ('cause I'm at least a bit familiar with that), in the beginning I'd sort of expect it from Clark, just because he never seems to be in perfect control of his powers.

Hell, I'd accept bruises in Han Solo/Chewbacca. The very concept of that pairing makes me want to stab myself in the head, yes, but if it did happen, there could well be bruises.

And I have to confess I'm also in the 'bruises can be sexy' camp

Dang. People with excellent taste keep revising my opinion of bruises. Proposed amendment to former statement: bruises are potentially sexy, at least in some cases, but still not very probable in human/human sex. I think that works better, yes?
(no subject) - brown_betty on January 21st, 2005 07:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brown_betty on January 21st, 2005 04:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - andrastewhite on January 23rd, 2005 12:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
Glennhypertwink on January 21st, 2005 03:25 am (UTC)
I agree with you. One of my worst peeves is the lube part. I'm a gay man so I kinda know what feels good or not. Even if you've been together for long a little lube goes a long way. You can't just spit and voila, it's way deep into the ass.

And please, if you really want to know, KY definitely. Baby oil and lotion, if you're desperate. But no chapstick, no blood (well, unless you're Angel and Spike and even then, that's pishing it) and no motor oil!!!
post-apocalypse shenanigans: Vin B4 10brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 06:52 am (UTC)
Ok, seriously curious. Since Brian and Dom ALWAYS have motor oil handy, I actually would use it, if circumstances dictated. And I'm a lube stickly, myself. Especially NO SWIMMING POOLS WITHOUT LUBE. But, I kinda thought motor oil was ok. Granted, I haven't tried it. Maybe I should then I'd know what I'm talking about. Research. Research. Research.
(no subject) - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 09:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 09:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - norah on January 21st, 2005 09:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - atalantapendrag on January 21st, 2005 03:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 09:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kelliem on January 21st, 2005 10:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
QUestion - raveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 09:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: QUestion - hypertwink on January 21st, 2005 09:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - layered on January 21st, 2005 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
the upper echelons of mediocritythe_star_fish on January 21st, 2005 04:59 am (UTC)
Yay! Well said!!

(I must confess that in the early days of my slash career I took the advice of a popular website and used soap as lube ... I was promptly corrected by not one but two readers and ended up changing it to conditioner (motel room, no supplies, etc.). Now that I really understand why lube is so very very essential I cringe at the thought of ever going without it.)

What's the new fandom?
tried to eat the safe banana: UF greythefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:46 pm (UTC)
I was promptly corrected by not one but two readers

Well, that's one great thing about FF: very sharp learning curve. For the good writers, anyway.

And the new fandom is Stargate. Of course, that's not all I'm reading, and these peeves don't all come from there by any means. But learning a big new fandom usually ups my reading enough that I finally post one of these rants.
Ruricruric on January 21st, 2005 05:18 am (UTC)
Hate me and want to make sure I know it?

More to the point I think I have just fallen passionately in love with your ability to conduct an intelligent, witty rant which made me snigger in many places (not something I should be doing at work)! I'll be reading the previous rants at home tonight, because weeping with laughter whilst at work - not such a good idea :o)

100% with you on everything - but I *loved* your comments on lube, cum/precum (::like you reflexively reach for Latin dictionaries!) and like a virgin. Heh.

It's been a busy, evil week here so this was just what I needed to give me a lift this lunchtime!

I'm also enjoying your continued erudite recs posts, which I am stockpiling for when I have time to read!
tried to eat the safe banana: Big eyesthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 04:50 pm (UTC)
Oooo, thank you. I am loved! And I helped with a busy and evil week!

*wriggles with joy*

(And I am so glad to know that other people came out of their schooling careers with Latin twitch reflexes. I've hid my disgrace, but no more; in the future, I will be open and honest and tell people that I am a survivor of Latin classes. The shame will not silence me!)
aliquid stat pro aliquomaygra on January 21st, 2005 05:22 am (UTC)
Lube: {falls over laughing} Okay, check. Got that. :::giggles insanely:::

Also, with the bruises are sexy camp -- which generally follows the "Rough sex is sexy" camp. Also with the not quite consensual or entirely non-consensual camp that twitches on the reminders camp. And on the TMI side, I am one of those people who bruises really easily: fair skin, prone to running into things...Gets bruises in non-bruisingish places like *hands*. (Justifies madly...)

Watch the Cock...in minute and excrutiating detail, I fear.

See, this is the perfect rant because now, in all those instances where I am tempted to write The Bad Things, I will be laughing my ass off and be unable to actually write The Bad Things. Because usually, humor is not what I'm going for.

:::applauds the fourthvine::


post-apocalypse shenanigans: Vin B4 10brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 06:56 am (UTC)
*holy snerk*

I was chuckling while reading the No Lube statement and thinking of you, trying to rationalize our kink for the "pain is a good thing" camp.

[falling in the camp of TMI alongside Maygra's bruises]

Since lube is SO essential to me, I really hesitate to write it, even in rough sex, unless 1) character a is punishing character b, 2) character b begs for it and includes the phrase "fuck the lube," and 3) I'm writing with Maygra.
(Deleted comment)
Re: Sacrificing Lube for Drama since 1997 - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 10:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
Sacrificing Lube for Drama since 1997 - maygra on January 21st, 2005 11:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - raveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 09:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Hel Virago: Fraserhelvirago on January 21st, 2005 06:01 am (UTC)
(Sorry -- while I may also adore maygra, I was intending to reply to your original post.)

Totally adore you. And also agree with pretty much everything you said.

What's with the resistance to lube, anyway? Seems to me some people need to discover the joys of lube in straight sex; then maybe they'd remember it when it comes to the slash.

The lovely thing about HP fandom is that you can just handwave things -- lube? well, how about a spell -- and everything's done quick and easy. Which makes it even less comprehensible that there are so many lubeless fucks in HP. Along the same lines, I understand why slash writers tend not to include enemas or the like, but really, one line about a cleansing spell in HP... ah, well. My peeve, clearly not the writer's.

And the word 'cum' drives me batshit insane. It's just such an oddly cutesy word. Like it belongs in a Prince song, or IM chat logs: "I'm gonna 2 mayk U cum, hoor."
the opposite of batmanpearl_o on January 21st, 2005 08:01 am (UTC)
What's with the resistance to lube, anyway? Seems to me some people need to discover the joys of lube in straight sex; then maybe they'd remember it when it comes to the slash.

You know, on a note only very very vaguely related to this? One of the random things that makes *me* go WTF on a lot of slash stories is the automatic assumption that lube = GAY GAY GAY. It makes me wonder if the authors actually realize that lubricant can be and *is* used for acts other than guy-on-guy anal sex.
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - z_rayne on January 24th, 2005 10:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
shellumbo on January 21st, 2005 06:07 am (UTC)
In great agreement with you and adoration of you on every point. Can't even fathom that people are writing Daniel, Angel, and Keller as virgins--that's just--did I say already I can't even fathom it?
tried to eat the safe banana: Drawthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:44 pm (UTC)
Right there with you on the not-fathoming thing. I wish that I'd kept a list of all the Improbable Virginities I've encountered in my reading time, although I think the really horrendous ones - Angel and Keller, for example - are going to stay with me anyway.

I feel like I should write some kind of formula for determining the probability that a character is a virgin. I would be sure to include major deductions for past long-term relationships, biological children, and exceptionally long lives. Not to mention, of course, having sex in the canon. I mean, Keller gets a blowjob on camera, for Christ's sake! And as for Angel, well, his sex life was a major plot point for an entire season of Buffy! Arg.
Laylee: Pantslaylee on January 21st, 2005 06:25 am (UTC)
Firstly I must say that I heartily agree with all you have to say. In particular I hate the so-called word 'cum' and cringe every time I come across it in a fic.

And lately, my favourite pet peeve is the way a lot of writers put forward the idea that first-time sex is always great. In reality, no matter how much two people love each other, first-time sex is rarely great. It can be awkward, uncomfortable and embarrassing, sometimes okay, and quite often not too bad, but hardly ever great. It takes time for people to reach and accord between the sheets and to have both parties 'screaming his name as I cum so hard I swear my brains are going to explode' the first time around is sometimes just a little too much cope with.
tried to eat the safe banana: Heartbeatthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:47 pm (UTC)
And lately, my favourite pet peeve is the way a lot of writers put forward the idea that first-time sex is always great.

Oh Jesus yes. Yes, yes, yes. I could not agree more, and there are stories I love solely because they show a first time the way those things mostly go.

A related, though less noxious myth is that the first time having sex after a long hiatus is destined to be fantastic. I've never found that going without sex makes the sex better, and usually it's the opposite; for me, anyway, sex is something I want to, um, well, I'm not going to say "keep my hand in," so you'll just have to fill in the last part of the sentence yourself.
(no subject) - funwithrage on January 24th, 2005 02:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Annie: *snerk* by Saavaout_there on January 21st, 2005 06:35 am (UTC)
If it wasn't for the fact that you're taken, and I've already claimed celli as my fannish consort, I'd be getting down on bended knee and asking you to marry me for this rant. *adores*
tried to eat the safe banana: Everybody wants a rockthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 05:48 pm (UTC)
*adores right back*

And, hey - maybe we could be AU fannish consorts! I'd totally go there for you.
(no subject) - out_there on January 23rd, 2005 04:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
HJhjcallipygian on January 21st, 2005 06:48 am (UTC)
Yay! More ranty goodness!

I was running low. And, also, thank you so much for the come/cum rant. That one just drives me fucking insane with rage.
tried to eat the safe banana: I've been badthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 06:00 pm (UTC)
Any time you need ranting, I'm here for you. Trust me on this; no one needs to run short of rant while I'm around.

(And thanks. A vote against cum is a vote for sanity, my friend. Sanity and not being stabbed in your fleshy bits with a fork, because people who are exposed to that horrible word too many times are notoriously unstable. 87% of all serial killers spell it cum!)
(no subject) - hjcallipygian on January 21st, 2005 06:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 26th, 2005 02:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hjcallipygian on January 26th, 2005 06:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
Anne Lineanneline on January 21st, 2005 07:22 am (UTC)
I think bruises are sexy but it may just be wishful thinking on my part. I'm like maygra and bruise very easily (I have a bruise on my hand right now as a matter of fact). So maybe I'm just hoping that some guys find that hot rather than nasty. I've been told muscular people don't bruise as easily as non-muscular people, so that might also be something to consider. I do know from experience if you do get bruises during sex (including finger shaped ones on hips) they don't show up until the next day. Or at least several hours later.

Despite that, I have written fic where bruises appeared spontaneously even though I knew better. I apologize. I feel throughly chastised and won't do it again. I love all your rants (and recs). You should do another one of over-used word/phrases. Gotta keep the fandoms fresh with the vocabulary.
Raven: Emily Meraveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 08:45 am (UTC)
tip from someone who also bruises easily
Recently, I discovered that arnica gel is an amazing bruise healer.
Re: tip from someone who also bruises easily - anneline on January 21st, 2005 01:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 06:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Lucycereta on January 21st, 2005 07:24 am (UTC)
So know that when you spell it c-u-m you're giving some of us painful flashbacks to Latin classes so boring that, by the end of one of them, we could totally empathize with what it's like to be dead for two thousand years. (And by the end of four of them, we were envying Latin, which at least got to be used in orgies and stuff before it died. The best we got was slides, which I had never seen used as a teaching aid prior to this class.)

Latin is a dead language,
As dead as it can be.
First it killed the Romans,
Now it's killing me.

All are dead who spoke it,
All are dead who learned it.
All are dead who wrote it,
Blessed death, they earned it.
tried to eat the safe banana: Greek to methefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 08:09 pm (UTC)
I love you for knowing that one, albeit in a form somewhat different than the one I heard back then. I have no idea where it comes from, though - do you?

(And you just totally gave me flashbacks. We used to pass notes in class containing things of this kind, including the famous "illegitimus non carborundum" one, variously altered to suit.)
Qqe2 on January 21st, 2005 07:47 am (UTC)
Thank you.

When I'm out of the weeds here in law-school land, I hope I'll have time to come back and comment in more depth on this.

Right now I just want to express my undying gratitude and leave it at that.

(Except to note that as a result of all the "cum" addicts out there, I now twitch every time I see someone refer to Mel Gibson as, say, an actor cum director. [Mel Gibson makes me twitch in general, actually.])
Raven: cute Stitchraveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 08:43 am (UTC)
That makes me twitch now, too.
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Raven: Cassandra ruefulraveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 08:43 am (UTC)
Ficking excellent rants.

One quibble: While I won't argue that the bruise factor is way too high in most fanfic because it is (guess lots of people have that fetish), and I agree that most guys probably won't bruise all that easily...I do. For some reason, probably due to my low blood pressure, I never fail to walk away from sex--normal sex, not rough--with numerous bruises. In everyday life,I can bruise any part of my body, even my hips, by being my normal clumsy self. My parents learned never to grab me when they corrected me or played with me because I would look like a child abuse victim.

But recently, I discovered that arnica gel is an amazing bruise healer.
smonsterbite: bloodied runpunkrunsmonsterbite on January 21st, 2005 08:46 am (UTC)
Wow, we totally xposted. Does low blood pressure really affect bruising? b/c I have both of those things too. I also have the falling-asleep-in-warm-rooms thing, which I've also heard is related.

(no subject) - raveninthewind on January 21st, 2005 08:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 12:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thepouncer on January 21st, 2005 04:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
smonsterbite: trample the weak hurdle the deadsmonsterbite on January 21st, 2005 08:44 am (UTC)
Chiming in with the I bruise easy/bruises are sexy camp. I get bruises and have *no* idea how. I once had 40 at one time, from rugby (clearly, I knew *how* those got there if not the specific blow that caused them). And during sex... yeah.

However, I agree with you that they are a little overused and that red marks which fade are much more likely.

And thanks for the come/cum thing. I'd been wondering which was correct and never got around to looking it up.

You give good rant.
post-apocalypse shenanigans: getrippedbrynwulf on January 21st, 2005 09:22 am (UTC)
not even close to on topic, but.... YAY RUGBY! Love the icon. *g*
(no subject) - smonsterbite on January 21st, 2005 09:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brynwulf on January 21st, 2005 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 08:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 08:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sascha: Sawyer - nocturagreenet on January 21st, 2005 09:47 am (UTC)
Gonna read the comments later, but first -- I´ve read the use "whatever the hell´s handy" for lube stories and usually I just go "okay, apparently I have a really dull sexlife", but I have read soap used as a lube as well, and, not having any intention of trying it myself for various reasons...Doesn´t that burn?

(also, I think I recall reading about shoepolish being used at one point. I´m hoping that´s just a bizarre joke on my brain´s side, because, well, highly unaestetic to start with...)

Like a virgin - Angel? Like. Angel? Angelus? Uh. Darla, Dru, possibly Spike, Buffy and Eve Angel? ...What show are those people watching?

And, Blair Sandburg? ...It´s been a while since I saw the show, but I distinctly remember something about him screwing a lady on Jim´s couch...

I do love the story in which Duncan MacLeod is a 400-virgin though. Or Methos, the 5000 year old virgin who was married, like, 88 times, but, you know, it´s not like he ever had sex during that time. *cough*

Per se - Random note: In Norwegian it´s pronounced pretty much the way it´s written.

Cum - *looks embarrassed* I was actually starting to almost believe that was the official term for it. It didn´t seem right, mind you, but neither does a whole lot English words. Like the use of either-or, neither-nor which seems to vary a lot depending on the author.

Surprisingly, my English dictionaries doesn´t actually contain that many words relevant to writing/reading porn.

*pause* I should send the publishers a letter of complaint.

ps.
I like your rants. They´re amusing with that special hint of "if I ever get my hands on this author, I will not be responsible for my actions".
tried to eat the safe banana: Bookthefourthvine on January 21st, 2005 09:18 pm (UTC)
Doesn´t that [soap] burn?

Fuck yes. Soap is an irritant anyway, and not necessarily something you'd want to apply to the delicate interior of any major orifice. But add friction, and the micro-tears friction causes, and ow ow ow.

I actually used to wonder if writers used soap as lube in anal sex out of some misguided idea that it would render the ass clean and shiny, somehow taking the shit factor out of anal sex. But now I'm pretty sure it's just misguidedness, a sort of "slippery = lube" thing.

I think I recall reading about shoepolish being used at one point.

Oh my god. Not the worst I've ever heard, but close. Disturbingly close.

Angel? Like. Angel? Angelus? Uh. Darla, Dru, possibly Spike, Buffy and Eve Angel? ...What show are those people watching?

The Virgin Angel Show? I hear it's very popular in Japan.

Seriously, though, I think the author I read who portrayed Angel as a virgin was unaware that he'd had a significant chunk of time before the soul curse. (I'm basing this on internal evidence in the story.) Which raises the question of why you'd write in a fandom when you're ignorant of the most basic canon facts, but I suspect said question is effectively unanswerable.

I do love the story in which Duncan MacLeod is a 400-virgin though. Or Methos, the 5000 year old virgin who was married, like, 88 times, but, you know, it´s not like he ever had sex during that time.

Hee. That's fabulous. But, no, it makes perfect sense! After all, they only invented sex in 1969, right? Before that new people came from parthenogenesis and schizogenesis. So it makes perfect sense that Methos would've been married all those times but only just now getting around to fondling and sucking, let alone inserting Tab A into, well, anything. Assuming that old time people had sex just because they were married - that's, like, revisionism! And historically inaccurate! And just plain icky!

Per se - Random note: In Norwegian it´s pronounced pretty much the way it´s written.

Ooo, interesting. So - because to me there's not a single obvious way to say it that matches the spelling, presumably because I don't know thing one about Norwegian pronunciation - is that with 'se' said like the e in see? (The linked page has a sound file, because I don't know if that's pronounced differently by Norwegians as well.) Or is it more like in set?

And do you happen to know how long per se has been in common use in Norwegian?

This is, obviously, way more fascinating to me than it should be.

Cum - *looks embarrassed* I was actually starting to almost believe that was the official term for it. It didn´t seem right, mind you, but neither does a whole lot English words.

You don't have to be embarrassed. English is not your first language, right? So you get an automatic out. Especially with stuff like this, because porn words probably aren't covered in detail in English classes, and you probably did, you know, gossip and so on in Norwegian. (And you should totally complain to your dictionaries' publishers, because there should so be obscene words in those.)

Like the use of either-or, neither-nor which seems to vary a lot depending on the author.

Do you mean the verb used with either-or and neither-nor? Or do you mean the actual use of either-or v. neither-nor? Because the former comes under the simple close agreement rules. And the latter is generally a matter of style or choice, as long as you keep the pairs together.

They´re amusing with that special hint of "if I ever get my hands on this author, I will not be responsible for my actions".

Um. Yeah. That's the mood I have to be in to post a rant. So I guess I'm communicating well, then. My parents, teachers, and therapists would be so proud.
(no subject) - greenet on January 22nd, 2005 08:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 22nd, 2005 05:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - milkshake_b on January 31st, 2005 10:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
indywind on January 21st, 2005 11:34 am (UTC)
I love the way you are so right!

Although soap is not so bad. Certain soap. In the shower, where continuous contact with water keeps it slippery. And, where else would anyone use it?
No don't answer that. I am sure someone has managed to have soap-not-in-the-shower. In fact, the thought that someone might take "soap is sort of okay in the shower" for blanket permission to use soap wherever, whenever...
Forget I said anything.

And the sexiness of bruises is a matter of opinion, I guess. ::contemplatively admires big greeny-purple patch on right thigh:: Though I would assume anyone who finds them more than mildly interesting is probably kinky as hell.
Marna Nightingale: do the readingscommodorified on January 21st, 2005 12:29 pm (UTC)
Errr, except soap is a violent emetic.

NOT a good quality in a lube...


total tangent - maygra on January 21st, 2005 01:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - indywind on January 21st, 2005 02:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - maygra on January 21st, 2005 05:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 22nd, 2005 03:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 21st, 2005 09:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 21st, 2005 10:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thefourthvine on January 22nd, 2005 03:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wilde_stallyn on January 22nd, 2005 05:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Resonantresonant8 on January 21st, 2005 11:35 am (UTC)
[snickering madly]

One appeal of historical fandoms is that you can in some cases have adult male virgins, if that is your heart's desire. I'm sure that a great many 17-year-old midshipmen had already experienced the pleasures of the flesh in 1793, but I'm also quite confident that Horatio Hornblower was not one of them.
Meredythmeredyth_13 on January 21st, 2005 03:59 pm (UTC)
Interesting point - but this brings up another question. Lube is a fairly modern invention (water based, hygienic, in a handy carry anywhere container).

In 1793, on a rather small ship, in the middle of nowhere - even soap wasn't really an option, unless you are fond of lye burns. Enemas, not really! Moisturiser, nope. Washing - all done in salt water. Given that m/m sex is pretty well acknowledged throughout history - we have to assume that either arses were a lot tougher, or they made do with smelly saliva and gritted teeth!

And just think of all those well sanded, well used belaying pins just hanging around. : )

ps. I'm jumping in on the bruise train - I dont think they're sexy - 'cause I get them for no reason, everywhere. And of those I do know the cause of - my husband shot me in the thigh at paintball - last APRIL - and I still have a bruise, and a nice dimple, in the leg.
(no subject) - resonant8 on January 21st, 2005 06:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 21st, 2005 10:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - z_rayne on January 24th, 2005 11:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 24th, 2005 11:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - commodorified on January 26th, 2005 02:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
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