17 March 2007 @ 08:00 am
Poll: Hot or Not?  
Recently, I was discussing the writing of porn with a party who shall remain nameless (unless she chooses to be named). The key part of the conversation went kind of like this:

Her: I'm writing porn that is very difficult.
Me: *sympathy*
Me: *rambling about ME ME ME*
Me, continuing to ramble: Like, when I was writing my Yuletide 2005 story, my recipient requested "hot het porn." And what I wrote was unbelievably not hot, the antithesis of hot. You were there for the shrieking hysterical breakdown, so I don't need to recapitulate.
[Note: For those many lucky folks not there for the breakdown: there was shrieking. And hysterics. And a post that is, mercifully, locked privately away forever, but can be summarized as, "I will fail my recipient and ruin Yuletide. I LOSE." In conclusion: porn does not come easily to some of us, and if you're just snickering at that, well, okay. I am, too. Join me in my club for the incurably low-minded!]
Me, still rambling: And when I reread that story, it is still the antithesis of hot, at least to me.
Me, rambling ever on: In fact, I don't think I've ever found anything I've written even remotely hot. Huh. Perhaps this is why I am so very bad at writing porn.
Her: ...I find the porn I write hot.
Me: Ooo. I feel a poll coming on.

And then I realized that today I would be in need of distraction. So - here is that poll. And it's only for people who have ever written any kind of porn, of any stripe, except the last question, which can be taken by anyone.

For the purposes of this poll, "porn" doesn't have to be NC-17 or even R; it just has to be erotic in intent. And you don't have to have written a lot of it. Once is enough! And it doesn't have to have been fan fiction, either. And any manner of porn - boy parts, girl parts, a delightful mixture of parts, merman/centaur (no, do not ask where the merman keeps his parts, for that way lies madness), tentacles galore, whatever - is equally valid.

Pimping of this poll would be not only welcome but, given the topic, entirely appropriate. If you know porn writers, why not ask them to come on over? I'd appreciate it. Distract me, people! I'm begging. Nicely.

Do you find porn you, yourself, are writing hot while you are writing it?

No. So not hot.
111(29.1%)
It depends. And I will explain this further in the comments.
96(25.1%)
Yes. Sometimes the keyboard catches fire, baby!
166(43.5%)
Radio buttons are the tools of the oppressors. Comments will set me free!
9(2.4%)

Do you find porn you, yourself, have written hot after you've written it? (Like, upon re-reading it.)

No. So not hot.
67(17.5%)
It depends. And I will explain this further in the comments.
115(30.1%)
Yes. Sometimes the monitor catches fire, baby!
166(43.5%)
I never, ever re-read my porn. And I refuse to, even for sound scientific polling reasons.
19(5.0%)
Radio buttons enforce false dichotomies and further divide our fractured society. I will seek unity in the comments.
15(3.9%)

Judging by comments and betas and suchlike, do you react to your porn - in terms of hotness - differently than your readers?

Yes. (And I am considering leaving a comment explaining how.)
95(25.6%)
Sometimes. (Because comments are like meditation, in that they bring clarity.)
144(38.8%)
No. (Only with comments there is generally less deep breathing and sit bones.)
76(20.5%)
My porn is never read by anyone except me. Or, possibly, anyone including me. So who can say?
43(11.6%)
I'm skipping straight to the comments, thanks. Radio buttons are the devil's playground.
13(3.5%)

Writing porn, as compared to other kinds of fiction writing, is:

Easy, like Captain Jack Sparrow or Harkness.
44(11.5%)
Hard, like Wolverine or Aeryn Sun.
140(36.7%)
Kind of in between, like Johnny Smith in bed with Walt and Sarah. Or Fraser in bed with assorted Rays.
132(34.6%)
Pretty much the same, like Fred and George or Connor and Murphy.
50(13.1%)
Better than these radio buttons, that's for damned sure. Comments for me!
15(3.9%)

As always, please exit the poll by choosing a random chunk of text suggested by Opera. (Special vaguely porn-related theme!)

The New Pornographers
48(12.3%)
thefourthvine wrote the worlds greatest love story. ... afterward, thefourthvine became an ideal and disappeared.
47(12.1%)
A kinky hypothesis!
125(32.1%)
You wouldn't believe the stuff I've been thinking.
100(25.7%)
Serve hot.
69(17.7%)
Tags: [poll]
 
 
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( 291 comments — Leave a comment )
misspamela: Apollo is fucking hot - Kageymisspamela on March 17th, 2007 03:11 pm (UTC)
I put "it depends" because it depends on the story -- some of them, I still find very hot, and found it hot while I was writing it, and some I cringe at. I will say that the things I find hot are the same things/stories that OTHER people find hot, which are also the same as the stories that I found EASY to write.

Maybe the struggling is visible? I don't know.

(Oh, and I owe you a comment from the amazing, interesting thing you wrote at my other LJ. I suck at updating over there.)
tried to eat the safe banana: UF bluethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:26 pm (UTC)
Maybe the struggling is visible? I don't know.

Innnnnteresting. Because I have found, for me, that the struggling (and hysterics, and weeping on the shoulders of my betas, and just generally being emo!pornographer) is not, I don't think, visible to my readers. Like, okay, the Yuletide story I wrote for you? Probably was the easiest for me of any porn I've actually written (um...all three pieces), just because, well, Perry is toppy. And what I learned is that, unsurprisingly, I can do toppy, because I am quite a toppy bitch myself. And even so, it was Aeryn Sun type writing, whereas the rest of it just kind of babbled out onto the page (probably because Harry is the Man Who Won't Shut Up, and I feel a strong bond of sympathy, there) - so easy and fun! I just don't think that the difference in ease of writing between the porny bits and the Harry autobabble is obvious to the reader. ...I hope not, anyway.

Oh, and I owe you a comment from the amazing, interesting thing you wrote at my other LJ. I suck at updating over there.

In your own time! Or not at all! Seriously, I don't leave comments - especially incredibly tl;dr comments - to force other people to reply to them. It's always reply at will. (Unless I'm asking, you know, a direct question like, "ARE YOU DEAD OR WHAT?" In which case I am very definitely hoping for a reply.)
your favourite curmudgeoneledhwenlin on March 17th, 2007 03:12 pm (UTC)
I like my porn, but then I generally write stuff that suits my own kinks (such as rimming or Fraser in boots (♥)).
tried to eat the safe banana: UF whitethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:28 pm (UTC)
See, even when I'm writing my own kinks, and generally I end up doing that to some degree, I still don't find it hot. It's just this total disconnect for me, where all I can see is god, I remember that horrible sentence and did I really write that? and so on.

But this is why I have Porn Dysfunction. I am convinced of it.
(no subject) - eledhwenlin on th, 12:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
aliquid stat pro aliquomaygra on March 17th, 2007 03:13 pm (UTC)
I don't have a hard time writing porn, but I rarely found what I'm reading to be hot. Uhm, except for once in awhile. Like Sway. And I thhink it has to do with why I'm writing it. Like, if I'm writing it because I feel a scene or story needs sex (or even just wants it) I'm, like, "Okay. Okay! Jesus. Here!. But if I'm writing it for someone else?

Uhm. Hotter. While, I'm writing it's hotter.

Hmm.

I think that probably says more about me than I wanted to know.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF black and whitethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:39 pm (UTC)
I don't have a hard time writing porn, but I rarely found what I'm reading to be hot.

I hate you. How can you write porn that well and have it not be hard? Or is it because you write it that well that it's not hard? Or is it that good because it's not hard?

...I think I just got lost in my own paragraph. In conclusion: I am green with envy, but then, that is nothing new.

And I thhink it has to do with why I'm writing it.

Very interesting. And not actually all that surprising to me, since you write stories for other people differently than you do your big, plotty STORIES - there you're almost recording what you already see, and you always type ahead of yourself, and porn takes time, so I'm not surprised you're like, "FINE. You can fuck, because now is when you fuck, but then we are getting back to the plot, misters. There's cars to be stolen! Demons to be hunted! Heads to be lopped off! I have things to do with you!"

I think that probably says more about me than I wanted to know.

Hah. My LJ is a tool for unwelcome self-realization! (And - you realize that the next time we share a fandom I will totally use that as an excuse to demand LOTS of porn from you, right? Gift porn for every occasion, including Arbor Day. I am not kidding.)
X-parrot: clex - so your place?xparrot on March 17th, 2007 03:14 pm (UTC)
I suck at writing porn, it is hard hard hard. I can only really write it at 5 AM when I'm supposed to be asleep; this is the only time chars ever turn up in my mind in an erotic mood. Any other time I'm just forcing it and often find myself actually unable to think up, not only the properly descriptive vocabulary, but simply the actions I want to describe ("Okay, he gives him a blow job! And then...um. He...puts his mouth...umm...where's that dartboard? Ah, hell with this." *fade to black*) I am also convinced that anyone who professes to find my porn hot is just being nice to me. Though sometimes reading a fic much after the writing of it, I'll find myself being a little turned on.

Of course I often suck at reading porn, in that if it's not very well written and/or very character appropriate and/or plot-relevant and/or I have been waiting 100 pages I damn well BETTER read this consummation - I will just skim it to get back to the story proper. I am the worst slash fan ever.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF bluethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:44 pm (UTC)
I suck at writing porn, it is hard hard hard.

*bonds*

*fade to black*

*snickers*

Um, yeah. I'm quite the fan of the fade to black myself. (Also the no-payoff porn, which makes my betas scream at me.)

Of course I often suck at reading porn, in that if it's not very well written and/or very character appropriate and/or plot-relevant and/or I have been waiting 100 pages I damn well BETTER read this consummation - I will just skim it to get back to the story proper. I am the worst slash fan ever.

If you are, then let's share table at the Worst Slash Fans Ever con. I will skim sex scenes unless they're, you know, in character and right. Sometimes I find myself wishing a story that is not only porny but in my pairing was gen, because the plot is amazing, can we get back to the plot?

But I tend to think that my disengagement is - well, if I was sold on the porn, if it served an important character or plot purpose, if it was part of the conflict or tension or whatever, then I know I'd read the porn with joy. So I tend not blame my disengagement on me. Disavowing personal responsibility for the win!
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BUT HARRY STYLES: cock!estrella30 on March 17th, 2007 03:16 pm (UTC)
oh, this is so interesting and I can't wait to see what other people vote and say.

For me, every answer was a 'sometimes' because, I dont know. if it's something that I really *want* to be writing, or something thats a total kink of *mine* that I'm putting in there, then yes, I will totally think it's hot while I'm writing it, and even afterward when rereading it sometimes.

but a lot of times, and this ties into the 'do you find writing porn easy' question, a lot of times my story itself is the story, the banter, the arguing, etc, that *leads* to the porn, so to me writing the porn is just dragging things on and it gets boring (to write) and I feel like, well I did what I set out to do, ie: get them together, but I KNOW that the real ending people want (and what *I* want in other peoples fic) is a nice, porny resolution, so I do it for that reason, and those times it's far less hot (to me) to read and write. so I'll be surprised when I get comments like, ZOMG SO HOT!! on something that to me was a pain in the ass to produce.

if that makes sense.

also, I think it has a lot to do with how long you've been in your fandom, etc. in the beginning I couldnt *wait* to get whoever - jared and jensen - in bed. now, after literally eighty-something stories with jensen as a main character, I'm tired of trying to think of new ways to make him come.

*koff*
tried to eat the safe banana: UF greythefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:52 pm (UTC)
if that makes sense.

It makes total sense. I take it you don't actually write 14k words of porn on your lunch hour, then? Because I totally believed Slod when she said that.

also, I think it has a lot to do with how long you've been in your fandom, etc.

Oh, I can totally see that. Because for me, how much interest I have in reading porn is a function of how long I've been in fandom in general, and also in any given fandom specifically - like, I still love it to bits, but in the beginning, it was like a buffet when you're starving: oh my god it all looks good! And now it's more like a buffet when you just kind of want to snack: you pick and choose and eat only the very tastiest things. And the gooey desserts, of course. ...Um. That metaphor may have kind of gone unfortunate on me, but you know what I mean, right?

I'm tired of trying to think of new ways to make him come.

He's so demanding. But, hey, he has needs! And you meet them! That makes you a Good Citizen. *awards you Fannish Good Citizen prize, with suitable trophy image on top, meaning you can never ever display it in your home or office*
aweszomerth: comic - this is a cranky facesinsense on March 17th, 2007 03:17 pm (UTC)
While I'm writing, there's usually too much logistical stuff going on for me to find it sexy. "Didn't he just touch his nuts? I think he did. GODDAMMIT, that was an IMPORTANT PLOT POINT," &c. Reading the story over later, it's usually okay enough that I'll shift in my seat, a little, like "goodness, did I write that? Haha, nut-touching." The stuff that I've allowed people to read has usually gotten a higher "hotness rating" (for lack of a better word) than I would have given it myself.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF indigo girlsthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 03:56 pm (UTC)
While I'm writing, there's usually too much logistical stuff going on for me to find it sexy.

Oh, god, the logistical stuff. That's a nightmare for me - suddenly I have to worry about, like, did I have him a shoulder holster? How the hell will he get his shirt off over that, what with all the tentacles? And, and, god, did I just have them have penetrative sex without ever taking her pants off? (Both things I have done, for the record. Betas saved me. Betas are goddesses who walk the earth.) I am so bad at keeping track of everyone's clothes and hands and just - stuff.

Disorganized people shouldn't write porn, maybe?

The stuff that I've allowed people to read has usually gotten a higher "hotness rating" (for lack of a better word) than I would have given it myself.

Perhaps this is a sign you should allow people to read more of your stuff. *hints in a totally unsubtle fashion*
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Laura Shapiro: sexylaurashapiro on March 17th, 2007 03:17 pm (UTC)
I'm a bit boggled that anyone would spend time writing porn that isnt' hot to them, unless they were writing it as a gift for someone else. All my sex scenes, back when I was writing them, came straight from my own desires, filtered through the characters I loved. How could that not be hot? And it's still hot to me, years after I stopped writing the stuff or even following those particular fandoms.

I often wrote stories because nobody else was writing what I wanted to read. I made my own fun. (: If I miss anything about writing fic, it's that, because there's still nobody writing what I want to read...but now I'm not doing anything to fill that gap.

This all sounds very solipsistic, and as if I never got off on anybody else's fic, which is so not the case. But it was a rare thing when somebody else's fic could make me as hot as my own.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF whitethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 04:00 pm (UTC)
I'm a bit boggled that anyone would spend time writing porn that isnt' hot to them, unless they were writing it as a gift for someone else.

And there you have it: almost all of my porn has been written as a gift or as commentfic for someone else. ...Actually, I don't think I've ever written porn except as a gift.

I give strange gifts, apparently.

But my natural level of writing, if I'm writing to entertain myself, is gen or vague intimations of sexuality. I'm not a natural porn writer. It's a chicken or egg problem, I guess: am I not a natural porn writer because I can't find my own writing hot? Or do I not find my own writing hot because I'm not a natural porn writer?

*contemplates in manner of koan*

*does not achieve enlightenment*
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Kitestringer: Rodney/John kissing omgkitestringer on March 17th, 2007 03:22 pm (UTC)
Back in the olden days, when I actually was able to *write* porn, the only time I found it hot was when I was *first* writing it. Later in the process, while editing, I generally began to find it boring, although still readable. Later, after posting, if I was brave enough to go back and read it, I usually found it boring and simultaneously laughable and/or cringe-inducing. (Hmmm...I think that applies to a lot of things I write, though, whether they're porny or not.)

Now I just find porn to be almost impossible to write in the first place. *loses*
tried to eat the safe banana: UF whitethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)
Back in the olden days, when I actually was able to *write* porn, the only time I found it hot was when I was *first* writing it.

Have faith, Kite! Your porn will rise again! ...Wait. That sounded bad.

And, interesting. You have late-onset Porn Dysfunction. Perhaps we should form a support group for the Porn Dysfunctional. I will bring cookies to the first meeting.

Hmmm...I think that applies to a lot of things I write, though, whether they're porny or not.

Yeah, likewise. For me, the problem is that I can't ever get my head out of edit mode when I'm reading something I've written; I can't ever get into the reader mode, where, sure, I notice errors, but that's not all I'm reading for. *sighs*
shellumbo on March 17th, 2007 03:22 pm (UTC)
I can't actually *write* the stuff unless I'm finding it hot. Otherwise I just get tangled up in logistics and bored and fed up and think it all sounds stupid, and I go off to write some other scene. I usually save the sex scenes for the time of the month when, uh, my hormones are at their peak.

Hey, I sort of inspired a poll!
misspamelamisspamela on March 17th, 2007 03:25 pm (UTC)
Otherwise I just get tangled up in logistics and bored and fed up and think it all sounds stupid, and I go off to write some other scene.

HA. You've just described exactly what writing sex scenes are for me, almost every single time.
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Lyra: alma oiwatergal on March 17th, 2007 03:23 pm (UTC)
Similarly after smelling and sampling my own chili for 15 minutes--much less half a day--I find it neither hot nor appealing and have zero interest to partake in it. It is offered up in a sense of obligation. That is simply what is expected by of one by that point.

*g*
tried to eat the safe banana: UF bluethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 04:31 pm (UTC)
Hmmm. Whereas I totally want to eat what I'm cooking, even after tasting it and working on it and so on. But I don't want to read my porn.

It is offered up in a sense of obligation. That is simply what is expected by of one by that point.

Mine generally stays lurking on my hard drive. And I don't mean porn - since it's always written as a gift, it's much more likely to be posted. But my stories in general stay hidden. And often unfinished. I'm a much better cook than writer, I guess. *grins*
Resonant: Not Like Thatresonant8 on March 17th, 2007 03:24 pm (UTC)
You're going to get a lot of "It depends" answers on this one, I'm betting.

When I'm working on porn, it's pretty much always hot to me at the concept stage, when I'm deciding what's going to happen.

While I'm actually writing it, it's an interesting puzzle, not hot at all.

Once it's written, it usually goes dead on me. (That last sex scene in Adorned is the only exception; oddly, it stayed hot to me for some time after it was written, though by now custom has staled its infinite variety.)
tried to eat the safe banana: UF greythefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 04:39 pm (UTC)
You're going to get a lot of "It depends" answers on this one, I'm betting.

*sigh*

I know. I tried so hard to convince myself that it was okay to be a radio button tyrant and not include an "it depends" option, but I just couldn't. Curse the occasional appearances of my conscience!

When I'm working on porn, it's pretty much always hot to me at the concept stage, when I'm deciding what's going to happen.

While I'm actually writing it, it's an interesting puzzle, not hot at all.

Once it's written, it usually goes dead on me.


Interesting. For me, it goes like this:

When I'm at the concept stage, planning what's going to happen, it's an interesting puzzle.

When I'm writing it, it's a lot of hysterics and gnashing of teeth and totally failing to keep track of who is doing what with what and also where the hell are the clothes?

When I'm done with it, it ranges from merely cringe-worthy to simply dead. This includes the part where I'm getting stuff back from my betas. I'm always very eager to re-read and make changes, right up until the porn. (Of course, that's usually because I'm laughing at myself because my betas have kindly pointed out that I, for example, seem to have given Jay more than one cock, and typically one is all your average adult male has, and if he's got more, really, that should be a plot point, shouldn't it?)

That last sex scene in Adorned is the only exception; oddly, it stayed hot to me for some time after it was written, though by now custom has staled its infinite variety.

Well, it's an awesome sex scene, but now I wonder: why just that scene? My brain is trying, and totally failing, to come up with an experiment in which the specifics that made the scene work even after writing could be firmly nailed down. I tell you this, though: any experimental model I do come up with is going to involve you writing lots of porn. In fact, you could totally start early, while I'm still getting the study design together. I wouldn't complain.
Bettybrown_betty on March 17th, 2007 03:43 pm (UTC)
Okay, so, in the rare occasions I have written porn, it went like this:

Me: Wow, I just had a pornlet so hot that my panties spontaneously combusted hit me like a brick to the head! Perhaps I should write it down!
Me (writing): …but, where has all the hot gone?!?
Me (reading): …okay, kinda, but it's not as hot as it was in my head.

I think the problem is that writing porn is a balancing act in that one has to be able to reach for the porn-brain to check the temperature, as it were, but write with the non-porn brain. Writing with my porn brain would probably be a stupid mash of verbs and adjectives connected by ellipses.
tried to eat the safe banana: TFV lettersthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 04:44 pm (UTC)
(First, I just want you to know that I STILL think, "Oh, right, she's a teapot" every time I see your icon. Why can't you be a part-time crumble?)

I think the problem is that writing porn is a balancing act in that one has to be able to reach for the porn-brain to check the temperature, as it were, but write with the non-porn brain.

This make sense to me. I think my own problem is that I don't have much of a porn brain, so I'm writing porn with something not suited to the task, if that makes sense.

...Which, upon re-reading, it totally doesn't.

*sighs*

Writing with my porn brain would probably be a stupid mash of verbs and adjectives connected by ellipses.

Also, the porn brain is probably not interested in things like continuity, or indeed sense. I suspect a porn brain is rather, um, one-track.
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I was raised the old-fashioned way: sheepish || sasha_davidovnasasha_davidovna on March 17th, 2007 03:46 pm (UTC)
I find writing porn to be nearly impossible and rarely even try. Sex scenes tend to play like a movie in my head, which is quite hot, but on paper they come out in what amounts to blocking, which is not, and never will be. I am not sure if this is due to my own hang-ups or because most of my formal writing training is in playwrighting, so I'm not good at description in general beyond the basics of action and scenery.

Case in point, I'm playing with a Supernatural/Friday Night Lights crossover right now (Dean/Sam/Tyra Collette) and 2300 words of build-up flowed like water in about four hours. Then Dean and Tyra started getting it on and it screeched to a dead stop for a week until I gave up and faded to black. Hopefully I'll be able to go back and add the sex in later, because it actually does have a point in the plot, but I'm not overly counting on it.

Can't really help that I don't read a whole lot of porn either, though. I apparently have the mind of a 12 year old. Unless, as xparrot said above, it is "very well written and/or very character appropriate and/or plot-relevant and/or I have been waiting 100 pages I damn well BETTER read this consummation" I start snickering over words like "cock" and "cunt" and end up ruining the mood and, often as not, just skipping over the sex entirely to get back to the plot.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF greythefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 05:00 pm (UTC)
I am not sure if this is due to my own hang-ups or because most of my formal writing training is in playwrighting, so I'm not good at description in general beyond the basics of action and scenery.

*thoughtful*

I've always kind of envied stage-type writers and movie-type writers. Almost all my own writing starts out exclusively in the form of dialogue, and I write it down and then go back and think, "Okay. What would they be DOING at this point?" I mean, at least you can see something!

*envious*

Then Dean and Tyra started getting it on and it screeched to a dead stop for a week until I gave up and faded to black. Hopefully I'll be able to go back and add the sex in later, because it actually does have a point in the plot, but I'm not overly counting on it.

I wish you luck. May Dean and Tyra do their thing for you! (God, there's just no way for things not to sound bad when you're talking about porn, is there?)

just skipping over the sex entirely to get back to the plot.

I do that, too, but, as I said to xparrot, I tend to consider that not my fault. Because if the porn is very well written and character appropriate and plot-relevant, I will read it with joy. Just...not if it's porn pastede in yay.
(no subject) - sasha_davidovna on th, 12:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
all work and no play: ang-j (sex)hesychasm on March 17th, 2007 04:00 pm (UTC)
I echo the other people who said the porny idea, before writing it down, was hot, and then the act of writing it down and making it essentially a mental exercise just de-hotted it. Very sad.

Only very rarely have I felt turned on in the process of writing, or felt turned on by my own porn when I went back to re-read it (and that was after a rather long time and a lot of distance -- in immediate re-reads I only ever see the flaws and problems). But even with those instances, I was nowhere near as turned on as I can get reading other people's stories, or imagining the scenario in my own head before I mess it all up with words.
tried to eat the safe banana: Writingthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 05:03 pm (UTC)
I echo the other people who said the porny idea, before writing it down, was hot, and then the act of writing it down and making it essentially a mental exercise just de-hotted it. Very sad.

It is sad. Does it help to think of it as distributing the hot rather than de-hotting it? Like, okay, the idea was hot, then you wrote it down and captured the hot, so it could be hot for many others. You sent the hot out into the world! And will receive the hot back unto you tenfold!

Hmmm. I'm not sure if I've just described fandom or massacred a parable. Possibly both.

*dubious*
(no subject) - norah on th, 12:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
kalimyre: Emo lawn by becstar216kalimyre on March 17th, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC)
For me, porn sometimes just happens. I've written maybe one story that was a straight up PWP for the sake of it. And that one took no effort; it, in fact, pretty much wrote itself as fast as I could type it and I still think it's probably the hottest thing I've ever done. Basically, if you have to try and plan and think it out and make an effort, porn isn't good. It's better when it's spontaneous and exciting and easy. Much like sex.
tried to eat the safe banana: Writingthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 05:23 pm (UTC)
For me, porn sometimes just happens.

*envious*

How do I get porn to just happen to me? Is there, like, a place to sign up for that?

Basically, if you have to try and plan and think it out and make an effort, porn isn't good. It's better when it's spontaneous and exciting and easy. Much like sex.

You are probably entirely right about this. *sighs* And yet I will continue to sign up for Yuletide. Because, darn it, what is the holiday season without a lot of porn-related panic?
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squeeze me, stomp me,  make me winemoosesal on March 17th, 2007 04:06 pm (UTC)
Okay. I've had times when I've had to stop writing because the porn was turning me on so much I was losing focus. And I've also had times when writing the porn was practically impossible. I tend to get writer's block more with porn than with non-porn. I just sometimes hit a wall and I can't get my characters into bed (or against a wall, or over a table, or whatever) to save my life. They just want to snark at each other or hang out or they realize they don't really like each other after all or they turn into drunks or...

So the easy/hard thing just varies for me. And sometimes I find my porn hot and other times I think it's crap and am surprised when my betas think it works. What can I say, I'm fickle.

As to how I react vs. how my readers react? I often worry that what I think is the hottest part of the porn is not going to appeal to my readers and I'm always surprised when some comments that something is hot. I fret a lot about if something's going to work or not, esp. if it's a weird pairing or a more unconventional situation (like Stella fisting RayK -- which was really well received and I thought was very hot, but expected people to NOT like). And also because I worry like this, I think I tend to sometimes write more for my audience and less to my own tastes, so in those situations I don't always find my stuff to be as hot as my readers.
tried to eat the safe banana: Writingthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 05:59 pm (UTC)
I tend to get writer's block more with porn than with non-porn. I just sometimes hit a wall and I can't get my characters into bed (or against a wall, or over a table, or whatever) to save my life. They just want to snark at each other or hang out or they realize they don't really like each other after all or they turn into drunks or...

Oh, god. This part is so me. Sadly, the part where sometimes you're really into the porn isn't me, but this - yes. My characters would ALWAYS rather fight than fuck. Snark than suck. Something is just wrong with them. (Or me. But, um, we can blame the characters, yes?)

And also because I worry like this, I think I tend to sometimes write more for my audience and less to my own tastes, so in those situations I don't always find my stuff to be as hot as my readers.

Interesting. But, like with the Stella/RayK fisting story, when you are going with what you want to write, people love it, right? So either way seems to work for you.

(I'm always writing porn as a gift, so I'm obsessively worried about how it's going to turn out, if One Certain Person is going to like it. So I hear you on the audience-worry. Totally. Porn writing is the only time I really have that.)
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Solosolo on March 17th, 2007 04:06 pm (UTC)
Right, comments. Some of the porn I write pings me, and sometimes I write it like that precisely because I know what works for me and hey, part of reason I write is that I want something to read that works for me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

And I need to get into a porny mood to be able to write porn at all, so yeah, I can get rather excited during the writing process.

Then there's the problem porn where it's not actually meant to be hot, and I don't really (I think. I hope.) write it to be hot, and then I go back later and... um. Wonder uncomfortably what I was on that that reads hot instead of fraught or sick or whatever.

I don't know if my porn works for my readers like it does for me because so far I don't have many readers and we tend to discuss the porn least of all. This might of course be significant.

I don't find it harder or easier to write than other stuff. I need to be in the mood, but that applies to everything else, too.
tried to eat the safe banana: HnG Akira Hikaruthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 08:29 pm (UTC)
Some of the porn I write pings me, and sometimes I write it like that precisely because I know what works for me and hey, part of reason I write is that I want something to read that works for me.

*envies*

There's not a (porny) story I've written that didn't have some kind of thing I'd like to read more of in it. And yet. If I've written it, it becomes, de facto, something I don't want to read more of. (Only true of porn. I write Epics That Must Not Be Read, and while they will never be read by anyone but me - oh god how I've learned my lesson on that - I re-read them for fun all the time, and I totally love them, even with their manifold flaws. But they aren't porny.)

I don't know if my porn works for my readers like it does for me because so far I don't have many readers and we tend to discuss the porn least of all.

This is one of the best things my betas do for me (besides, of course, fixing my stories, and especially my porn): they act as readers who discuss everything. Without their (multiple) reassurances that my porn is acceptably hot, I would never, ever be able to post it. (Or finish it. I have issues.)

I don't find it harder or easier to write than other stuff.

I am sick with envy. (Well, unless that means the other stuff is almost impossible to write, in which case, not so much. But otherwise: ENVY.)
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[will fuck for sex]: writing is wickedanatsuno on March 17th, 2007 04:17 pm (UTC)
I'm kind of with laurashapiro about it. A friend (wiser, older, mentor kinda of friend) told me, when I met her early in my fandom life, that we should all be writing our own pornography, i.e. the porn we want(need) to read. I believed her in that I thought it was a worthy goal, to be sure, but I was a little bit surprised by the idea because at the time I was quite content with lurking in two fandoms and reading up my fill of good fic and porn without even contemplating writing anything.

Two years later I was engrossed in writing thousands and thousands and thousands of porn in a never ending co-writing multi-chaptered saga featuring the kinkiest characters, finding it very hot in the process and very hot in multiple rereads, and I suddenly thought "Oh, I see what she meant now. WOW."

The thing is, I consider myself a PWP writer because porn is what I think up the easiest (plot eludes me), but it's not exactly true either. I can't do porn without character, I have to have a very clear picture of WHO these people are before I can make them fuck, and how they like each other exactly, and why they're having sex right now and how. And as much as I would like to be able to really sit down and write 14k of porn on my lunch break, what happens is that I am much better at co-writing it, or writing it *for* someone, and that I am very often blocked by my own inability to pick the characters' settings and motivations before I start. In short, I lack story, left to my own devices, and because I lack story I cannae write the porn.

(which explains why I have 5 different stories started on my HD featuring John and Rodney, with a clear idea of What Porn This Will Lead To, but without porn actually written because the Story Is Blocked. I hate, hate, hate this.)
tried to eat the safe banana: Suspicious owlthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 08:39 pm (UTC)
A friend (wiser, older, mentor kinda of friend) told me, when I met her early in my fandom life, that we should all be writing our own pornography, i.e. the porn we want(need) to read.

I agree that that's a worthy goal, but it's one I could never meet. I write the kind of stories I want to write, or rather, the ones I have to write. (Either because I am grimly propelled by a Vision or because I have signed up for Yuletide again.) They aren't necessarily the stories I want to read. I get that that is the ideal, but for me - it just doesn't always happen that way. (Although the story I love best is one I re-read on a fairly regular basis, because it is pretty much what I want to read. So it's not like I never do it, just that I can't do it as much as I wish I could.)

In short, I lack story, left to my own devices, and because I lack story I cannae write the porn.

Okay, this is amusing to me, because this is exactly the inverse of my problem. I have written several stories that are finished except for [PORN HERE].

In fact, I did that with one of my Yuletide stories last year, and norah, who is my porn angel, wrote the porn for me because I was so very blocked on it. (We've collaborated before, and she is my ideal writing partner, because I can get Ray be-tentacled and to Fraser, or Jay and Kay sex pollened up, and then she will make the porn magically HAPPEN. It is so cool. NC-17 without tears!)

which explains why I have 5 different stories started on my HD featuring John and Rodney, with a clear idea of What Porn This Will Lead To, but without porn actually written because the Story Is Blocked.

Maybe you could just go ahead and write the porn, knowing the story between what you've got and the actual porn parts, and then see if a) you don't actually need to write everything or b) it makes it easier to write the middle bits. I know, for me, sometimes writing the scenes I can actually see, even if they're way out of order, helps me with the blocked parts. (And even if it doesn't work, you'd be bringing more porn into the world, and that is, by definition, a good thing.)
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Comment Ninjabest_beloved on March 17th, 2007 04:21 pm (UTC)
You should go back and read the gen Yuletide story you wrote to see how you feel about it now.

Oh, wait, my bad - you should actually *read* the gen Yuletide story you wrote.

Really, I think you'd like it.
makesmewannadie: sadiemaenorah on March 17th, 2007 07:45 pm (UTC)
*snerk*

Yeah, TFV. Read it! It was good!
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neither green nor particularly leafycalathea on March 17th, 2007 04:21 pm (UTC)
I find the idea I am trying to write extremely hot, most of the time, or else I wouldn't be writing it down.

I find the actual effort required to translate SCORCHING into words unutterably painful.

I find the end result invariably differs so wildly from the initial idea as to be unreadably awful.

can't find my drink or pants: sheppard by sindengeeklite on March 17th, 2007 05:49 pm (UTC)
*points upward*

This is exactly why none of the stuff I've ever written has ever seen the light of day.
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eli: wicked thoughtselishavah on March 17th, 2007 04:22 pm (UTC)
Oh, my poll answers are the very definition of Not Helpful, I'm sure. An attempt at clarity:

It took me freaking forever to work my way to up writing graphic porn, and I still prefer to write more oblique porn; not necessarily fade-to-black, but just not detailed play-by-play. That's the stuff that is hotter while I'm writing and when I read it again afterwards. However, I find that while the graphic stuff may give me a rush while I'm writing it -- and I'm with Laura re: "how can you make it hot if you don't find it hot in the moment?" -- I'll get the betas back, and then comments, that make me want to respond, "Really? Um, yay? I mean, that was the point, but...really?" I don't, of course, but once I'm out of the moment, all I can see are the mechanics of both the sex and the writing, I guess.

As for ease (or not) of writing porn, "between 1 and 2 a.m. = easier" is about the only solid thing I can give you. Seriously, that's like a magic hour for me or something.
tried to eat the safe banana: Yum in whitethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 08:55 pm (UTC)
It took me freaking forever to work my way to up writing graphic porn

*wistful*

I'm still not there with the graphic porn. I mean, I've written it, but my natural level is dialogue. Period.

and I'm with Laura re: "how can you make it hot if you don't find it hot in the moment?"

Well, the thing is, I can't say for sure that I ever have. But other people have said my porn was hot, and so I assume I have. And if I have, the answer is: effort. And porn betas. And also Best Beloved peering over my shoulder and saying, "Okay, so, right about now you should cut someone's pants off." So effort and help, I guess?

As for ease (or not) of writing porn, "between 1 and 2 a.m. = easier" is about the only solid thing I can give you. Seriously, that's like a magic hour for me or something.

You know, you're not the only person to have a specific Porn Hour. Hmmm. This must be tested. It's time for science!
Rhi: horizonsgryphonrhi on March 17th, 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)
I actually find sex harder to write than fight scenes, although once it's done and I'm rereading... yeah, it can be hot then. While I'm trying to figure it out, sometimes it's hot, and sometimes it's just an intellectual puzzle of 'well, then what would they do?' ::eyes that:: I have a feeling that how much I relate to the characters in question has something to do with it. Huh. thanks!
tried to eat the safe banana: TFV bluethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 09:54 pm (UTC)
I actually find sex harder to write than fight scenes

Fight scenes are hard. But then, I have kind of a generalized issue with action. As long as people just stand around talking, I'm good. When they start doing stuff, though, I am all at sea. And whining about how hard it is.

I have a feeling that how much I relate to the characters in question has something to do with it.

Ooo. Interesting. I'm - hmmm. I'm wondering, now, who the characters are that I relate to most. And that's a tough question. Because I tend not to relate to the characters very much. Maybe that's part of my problem?

*ponders in fascination*
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E: all hyped up vorlon rosestarbrow on March 17th, 2007 04:28 pm (UTC)
Sometimes while I'm writing it I find it hot, mostly, I think, because it leads to pretty images in the brain. But I almost never find my own porn hot when I reread it. :( I mostly just die of embarrassment.

Only one story of mine really ever got the "omg so hawt!" reaction from people Just A Pick-Up (Highlander/Harry Potter, Sirius/Methos), although I'm not sure why.
tried to eat the safe banana: Writingthefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC)
Sometimes while I'm writing it I find it hot, mostly, I think, because it leads to pretty images in the brain.

Oh, hey. Huh. I wonder if that's partly what's at work here - because, well, I am so violently non-visual that I don't see any images in my head at all when I write. I wonder if people who find their stuff hot when they're writing it tend to see what they're writing about.

Interesting.

Sirius/Methos

For a second, I read that as Severus/Methos, for some reason. And I tried to imagine the two of them in the same room.

They immediately started loathing each other. See? This is my whole problem with porn! I put two people together and they fight or sulk or snark or just sit there in deep and abiding mutual hatred, no matter how patiently I explain that that is not how it's supposed to work. Grrr.

*makes mental note to read the SIRIUS/Methos story*
J. M. Torres: pornjmtorres on March 17th, 2007 04:32 pm (UTC)
I think that I have two fundamental disconnects:

1. I don't know where my own kinks are. I can be writing along on what I think is a purely intellectual level and my beta will say, "Right, then, we can add threesomes to your list of kinks?" and I go, "We can?" and she says, "Okay, you wrote X, Y, and Z, looks like a pattern to me," and I go, "Ohhh." So I'm clearly writing to please myself, but... pretending I'm not, or something. Or just bad at recognizing my own likes, because really, doesn't EVERYONE write that sort of thing?

2. It sometimes sort of kind of freaks me out that other people might get off on what I write, so I just pretend it isn't so. Except for one or two people that I *like* watching melt into a puddle of goo, but the larger audience? No. What is the sound of one hand fwapping?

Really, it's like double-blind porn.
tried to eat the safe banana: UF bluethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 09:04 pm (UTC)
Or just bad at recognizing my own likes, because really, doesn't EVERYONE write that sort of thing?

*nods*

Also, I think it's sometimes better not to analyze your own kinks to the nth degree.

It sometimes sort of kind of freaks me out that other people might get off on what I write, so I just pretend it isn't so.

There's definitely a level of TMI that can be too easily reached. Like, "OMG HOT" is a great reaction - at least, I like hearing it, when hot is what I was aiming for. "I'm masturbating to this RIGHT THIS MINUTE," though, um. Not so much. (Not that I have ever gotten that comment myself, but I've seen other people leave comments like that, and - well. It kind of makes me cringe a bit.)
laura: lotrjacquez on March 17th, 2007 04:34 pm (UTC)
I went with "Yes" answers, because if I don't find it hot, I didn't *intend* it to be hot, so therefore it's not erotic in intent, even if it's all about the sex.

I also tend to find the stuff I rate "PG-13" hotter than anything I've ever rated higher -- and frankly, usually if something I've written is rated higher, it's for violence or disturbing content, not for sex. I find that eliding the exact physical details lets me imagine it better, and my brain is SO much better when it's unfettered that way!

I know that some of my readers agree, because they've told me how hot they find it. Others, I'm sure, find it annoying that I am not describing the precise actions of Tab A and Slot B, but I do not care.
tried to eat the safe banana: Black gatethefourthvine on March 17th, 2007 09:11 pm (UTC)
(Your icon is giving me flashbacks. Oh, god. Leggy. *shivers*)

if I don't find it hot, I didn't *intend* it to be hot, so therefore it's not erotic in intent, even if it's all about the sex.

Yeah, I was specifically meaning only the stuff that's intended to be hot. There's some great sex writing out there that is absolutely not hot and not supposed to be, but that's a WHOLE other thing.

I also tend to find the stuff I rate "PG-13" hotter than anything I've ever rated higher

*nods*

Some of the hottest sex scenes I've read are ones that are subtle, short, and non-specific, because they give my imagination free reign, if that makes sense.

and frankly, usually if something I've written is rated higher, it's for violence or disturbing content, not for sex.

And can I just say how much I love you for that? It's wonderful when people consider content elements aside from the sex when they're rating their stories. I've read a few too many stories where, you know, there's three pages of graphic torture that ends in the character dying horribly, but it's still rated PG because it's gen. Not how it works.

Although I suppose that's kind of inevitable, given how the MPAA uses this same rating system. *sigh*

Others, I'm sure, find it annoying that I am not describing the precise actions of Tab A and Slot B, but I do not care.

*cheers you on*
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